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Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch [USLEEP] [OLD TOPIC]


Arthmoor

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Updating a mod should never be done with a clean save step, and i have never seen Arthmoor recommend that for any of his mods. The problems arise specifically from that one save where the script data are orphaned

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You definitely will NOT want to do a clean save in between. If it's not clear, I'm talking about installing USLEEP, then removing the previous set of patches from the game. Then simply loading up your save like nothing happened.

 

Papyrus has already proven that it doesn't care if you do this by renaming an esp to something else. Not a single script error was generated, but it DID rerun the retro script for the test. It may well react completely different to having the 3 DLC patch files ripped out. We won't know until we get to that point to try it the first time.

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Managing things as 4 separate entities is consuming a lot MORE time than we'd like and is becoming more and more prone to errors in getting things set for release targets.

 

 

So the merged USLEEP will be easier to manage, less work and easier to get right with less time and effort spent? Fair enough.

 

 

 

No. SkyUI doesn't have any dependencies on the USKP, or anything else. It's a masterless ESP file and we've deliberately avoided UI changes in favor of it for the life of the project so far. That's not going to change.
 

I should clarify that it won't be ALL of my stuff, just the logical ones like CRF and BOYD that already depend on the patch as masters. Anything that doesn't won't be affected by this.

 

Well, that's a relief. I've always considered The Paarthurnax Dilemma, Run for Your Lives and When Dragons Attack every bit as much Bug Fixes as USKP.

 

 

Many of those same mods have been idle for 2+ years already and will break the USKP as it stands anyway because they're overriding edits made to fix things and haven't been updated. The situation doesn't really change.

 

Yes, I was probably not thinking clearly. So, would you recommend cleaning old mods with TES5Edit to work with USLEEP, just as I may have done in the past with all 4 Unofficial Patches? I suppose an update to TES5Edit will be needed as well, to work with USLEEP?

 

Bugger. I'll have to update all my own self-authored mods now :(

 

 

Cheers, and thanks for the reply. ;)

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You definitely will NOT want to do a clean save in between. If it's not clear, I'm talking about installing USLEEP, then removing the previous set of patches from the game. Then simply loading up your save like nothing happened.

 

Do you have/will you have a thread somewhere about the best way to do this? Apart from "Remove a Mod, Restart the Game", which is a Mantra that rarely fails?

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Do you have/will you have a thread somewhere about the best way to do this? Apart from "Remove a Mod, Restart the Game", which is a Mantra that rarely fails?

 

As far as I understand it is quit simple.

Load your favorite MOD manager (or do it manually).

Install USLEEP, uninstall the current patches, fire up the game.

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The beginning of the end, huh?

 

"The pain of acquiring" DLC is even less work, if you don't have them. And the DLCs are integrated into the Skyrim world seamlessly, there is no valid gameplay argument against installing them. it's not like they magically transport your PC to a new landscape or something.

 

I acquired all the DLC during a Steam Sale some time ago, but have yet to play with them. I have little interest in the content they add, and would likely not have bought them were it not for the threat of the USLEEP. I take offense at your unsubstantiated claim that there is "no valid gameplay argument against installing them", when they trigger so many events and random attacks early in the game. If I were to play with them, I'd prefer to add them incrementally, when I'm ready for them, rather than being bombarded with them on a new character. No, "Timing is Everything" is not an option, because it requires SkyUI, which requires SKSE, which I absolutely refuse to use.

 

I've been tempted to try building my own interface mod, like I did for Oblivion, but it would require finding and learning tools and languages that are now considered obsolete, and thus difficult to acquire or find information about. I suppose I can try porting any new changes in USLEEP back to the separate patches, or making a replacement for Timing is Everything that isn't dependent on SkyUI/SKSE. Probably a ton of work, no matter which option I pick. I've already spent far more time in the CK trying to make Skyrim something I can bear to play than I actually have playing the game. Maybe I'm just not the target audience, or maybe it's just more of a time investment than I can fit into my life.

 

 

Mods which rely on using the USKP/UDGP/UHFP/UDBP are strongly urged to make plans to switch over to the new master file when it's ready. Other mods which import fixes from the unofficial patches are also strongly urged to make sure they are up to date before November. It would also be best if any translated versions of the patches out there get synced up with 2.1.3 so that as many people as possible will have access to them while the unification is underway.

========================

Some of you may also be wondering what this means for my own projects that make use of the unofficial patches as masters. These will all be converted as needed to run using the unified patch file. Post-unification, I will not release mods that rely on the individual patch files.

 

And that pretty much kills the idea of backporting fixes to the individual patches.

 

I still don't understand how anybody expects to benefit from this, other than Arthmoor. I don't begrudge him for doing so, he's given so much to the community, and has the right to do whatever he wants with the project anyway. But why would anyone else want it to happen? I still see zero direct benefit to players, only loss of options.

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I hate how all video games force me to use a monitor. I mean it's not just about me, but there are people who actually can't see. I don't understand how we are still not as inclusive as should be expected from such a huge entertainment industry in 2015. Maybe i'm jut not the target audience.

Yeah, sorry for mocking you up there, but seeing how many things you have an objection against, i fear that you have deeper rooting problems. It seems the whole idea of adding new things to your games causes some discomfort on a psychological level, and you can only manage it by extorting abolute contol about everything you add, and makes you dispise everything whose source code you do not understand.

(seriously, just reread what you wrote. Things you dislike: all dlc, skyUI, skse, the uskp merge, timing is everything, reading linked posts to learn about the benefits of the merge. Things you want to do: hack apart the usleep, learn a new/old scripting language to make the ui your way, activate the dlc late so you don't feel bombarded by content you would not have objected against had it been there on 11.11.11, rewrite timing is everything in the least efficient way possible by using papyrus exclusivelly, make skyrim into something you can bear playing. How do you think that makes you look like?)

Maybe a hobby that isn't surrounded by constant progress and evolution might be better suited for you. Have you tried fishing?

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I'm not sure I understand why people refuse to use SKSE or the DLCs. SKSE does nothing bad to the game in itself and in fact can enhance it with it's memory patching. The DLCs do effect you if you don't want to play them so that is valid, but I would argue it could have been like how Oblivion did it instead :P. There are options available to make that go away too as you said.

 

I use the DLC simply because they are official content. Even if I didn't like the content they added (Which I do!) I'd still use them for that alone.

 

But the choice is yours in the end, it seems only you are limiting yourself.

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The beginning of the end, huh?

 

 

I acquired all the DLC during a Steam Sale some time ago, but have yet to play with them. I have little interest in the content they add, and would likely not have bought them were it not for the threat of the USLEEP. I take offense at your unsubstantiated claim that there is "no valid gameplay argument against installing them", when they trigger so many events and random attacks early in the game. If I were to play with them, I'd prefer to add them incrementally, when I'm ready for them, rather than being bombarded with them on a new character. No, "Timing is Everything" is not an option, because it requires SkyUI, which requires SKSE, which I absolutely refuse to use.

 

I've been tempted to try building my own interface mod, like I did for Oblivion, but it would require finding and learning tools and languages that are now considered obsolete, and thus difficult to acquire or find information about. I suppose I can try porting any new changes in USLEEP back to the separate patches, or making a replacement for Timing is Everything that isn't dependent on SkyUI/SKSE. Probably a ton of work, no matter which option I pick. I've already spent far more time in the CK trying to make Skyrim something I can bear to play than I actually have playing the game. Maybe I'm just not the target audience, or maybe it's just more of a time investment than I can fit into my life.

 

 
 

 

And that pretty much kills the idea of backporting fixes to the individual patches.

 

I still don't understand how anybody expects to benefit from this, other than Arthmoor. I don't begrudge him for doing so, he's given so much to the community, and has the right to do whatever he wants with the project anyway. But why would anyone else want it to happen? I still see zero direct benefit to players, only loss of options.

 

Benefits for players is that there are some bugs that can't be fixed because the other dlc+patches overwrite it. Some of them can be fixed cleaning DLC but iirc there was some that cannot be fixed at all without having all DLC as masters. CRF users will also benefit from it as it opens the gates to legendary version of CRF.

 

I don't know what you have against SKSE exactly, as it actually improves game stability, but anyway I'll tell you how to quickly delay dawnguard/dragonborn to your liking with CK:

 

Dawnguard:

 

- Miscelaneous->Global: customize the DLC1VQMinLevel and DLC1VQMinLevelVampireAttacks to your liking. Optional, remove the constant flag from them so that you can modify them in game with console commands and persist.

 

Dragonborn:

- Add a global variable (Miscelaneous->Global), call it for example DragonbornStart and set it to 0.

- Character->Story Manager -> Change location event -> Stacked quest node: DLC2CultistAmbushNode

  Add a condition using your new global value: GetGlobal(DragonbornStart) == 1.00

-  Character->Story Manager -> Script event -> Stacked quest node: DLC2WEPriorityQuests->Quest: DLC2WE09.

Add the same condition here.

 

Now you can start dragonborn to your liking, using the "set DragonbornStart to 1" console command when you feel like it. (well you still need to be summoned by greybeards and go there, that can also be customized removing the GetStage(MQ105) )

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[edit] Reply is to Death-By-Destiny, not Eternity [/edit]

 

Not at all - he's playing the game which HE bought in the way HE wants to play it. Or was, until now.

25% of those who responded to the polls did so by voting against. 25% of a lot of people is still a lot of people.

What this boils down to is that if you want to play a (virtually) bug-free game, you have to buy content you don't want and have that content affect the way you play the game because of a decision by the author(s) of a 3rd party mod (made necessary by Beth's godawful lack of testing before release, and after, come to that). Oh, and that goes for any mod which requires another mod - namely the "delayed start" which requires SkyUI which requires SKSE.

 

Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate everything Arthmoor and the team have done for all of us. I even understand why the decision was made the way it was, I just disagree with it and won't be using it (USLEEP that is).

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That 25% poll figure is also more than a year old and is substantially less than that at this point. IMO, most anyone left who hasn't bought the DLCs are likely to remain permanent outliers and I'd estimate are no more than 15% now. I'm sorry, it may seem harsh, but we can't simply continue to hold back with shrinking numbers like that. By this time next year I expect those numbers will be less than 10% and I'm not gonna be upset in the least if USLEEP drove some of that.

 

As was mentioned several times now, the development conditions for the project are simply becoming too much of a hassle to deal with. It's currently more like managing 4 whole projects instead of one, with 4 times the places to screw up, 4 times the places to forget something, 4 times the places to find conflicts that shouldn't exist, 4 times the QA checks to make sure it's all ready to roll on each cycle. It's simply become unmanageable as is.

 

I will say though, I don't get the objections against the use of SKSE. It's a godsend. More so for Skyrim than the extenders were for any previous game because of the memory patch alone. Even if one were to use no mods reliant on it, that feature alone makes it worth it because it brings stability to the game. Plus the feature that allows it to clear out rogue registrations from broken mods that got uninstalled. That said, we still will not be requiring it. For our purposes it doesn't really offer enough benefit to outweigh the negatives people see in it. Those bugs that do require SKSE to fix pretty much all have solutions available made by others so it's not like people are forced to go without them.

 

IMO, there is a certain point at which rabid resistance to DLC (especially when one already has it all) seems more like being stubborn for the sake of it than any sort of valid objection. They may not be paragons of perfection, but nor are they the big disasters some folks make them out to be.

 

Anyway, we've been over this ground several times now and we're not going to change anything. The plan is what it is. People simply need to get used to it :P

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I don't want to make this about me or my problems, and mean-spirited armchair psychoanalysis is both unwelcome and unnecessary. I just want to disrupt the echo chamber of "Yay, this is awesome!", and show that no, this isn't better for everybody. I don't expect it to change anything. I probably wouldn't have even bothered replying were it not for the attitude of "anyone who doesn't play the same way I do is wrong". Elder Scrolls games give the player a lot of choice, both in the official content, and in that they provide an editor and encourage you to define the experience yourself. To say that everyone should use the same mods is to attempt to deny them that choice which is so pivotal to the game.

 
 

content you would not have objected against had it been there on 11.11.11

 

Had the content been there from the start, I believe it would have been paced better, spread out more, rather than all dropped in your lap shortly after starting a new character. But because it's DLC, they built it expecting it to be a late addition to existing characters, or something the player would make a new character just to experience, and thus designed it with minimal lag time between installation and the content starting up.

 

I'm not sure I understand why people refuse to use SKSE or the DLCs. SKSE does nothing bad to the game in itself and in fact can enhance it with it's memory patching. The DLCs do effect you if you don't want to play them so that is valid, but I would argue it could have been like how Oblivion did it instead :P. There are options available to make that go away too as you said.

 

I use the DLC simply because they are official content. Even if I didn't like the content they added (Which I do!) I'd still use them for that alone.

 

But the choice is yours in the end, it seems only you are limiting yourself.

 

You don't see your argument for using the DLC as an argument against using SKSE? I don't know what other people's objections to SKSE are, I can only voice my own: It uses code injection, rather than the plugin system. It requires you to use its own launcher, rather than the official one. You're no longer playing the Skyrim the developers intended to create, you're playing SKSE Skyrim.

 

I don't know how to directly communicate the underlying reason for my objections. I think my reasons for playing are different than most people, but since I'm not sure what other people's reasons are, I can only guess. It seems like most people just want whatever will be the most "fun", by some unexplainable criteria, and don't really care how that's accomplished. So to them, the more mods, the more content, the better. It's more to do, more options, and they don't really care how well it fits into the existing game. I either want to experience the author's original vision, or something of my own choice or creation. My goal isn't so much to "have fun" as it is to gain a complete understanding of the game. I use the unofficial patches because I think they better represent what Bethesda intended the game to be than what they actually produced. The same can't be said of a script extender, which alters the parameters of what's possible within the game's engine. Even if it's better, it's not what I wanted to play. And the code injection makes me uncomfortable for philosophical reasons.

 

Eternity, on 25 Jul 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Benefits for players is that there are some bugs that can't be fixed because the other dlc+patches overwrite it. Some of them can be fixed cleaning DLC but iirc there was some that cannot be fixed at all without having all DLC as masters. CRF users will also benefit from it as it opens the gates to legendary version of CRF.

 
And those could also be fixed by an additional patch file that has all the DLC as masters, rather than unifying the patches. Same with CRF. There's a maintenance tradeoff, which only Arthmoor is in a position to evaluate or make a decision about, but it's still another way those things could be dealt with. It's misleading to claim that unifying the patches is the only way.

 

I don't know what you have against SKSE exactly, as it actually improves game stability, but anyway I'll tell you how to quickly delay dawnguard/dragonborn to your liking with CK:

 

Thanks. That's probably the most viable solution. I'll have to do some digging to figure out Hearthfire.

 

IMO, there is a certain point at which rabid resistance to DLC (especially when one already has it all) seems more like being stubborn for the sake of it than any sort of valid objection. They may not be paragons of perfection, but nor are they the big disasters some folks make them out to be.

 

Except I wouldn't have the DLC, were it not for your dire announcement last year that this was going to happen eventually. My objection isn't so much the content of the DLC as it is the pacing of how it's presented to the player. Yes, it's better than Oblivion, but it's still too aggressive. I have the means to address that, and it will have to do. Once again, I didn't expect complaining to change anything. I just wanted to make it clear that it wasn't universally supported, lest anyone think the only objections to it were just not having the DLC.

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I don't know what other people's objections to SKSE are, I can only voice my own: It uses code injection, rather than the plugin system. It requires you to use its own launcher, rather than the official one. You're no longer playing the Skyrim the developers intended to create, you're playing SKSE Skyrim.

Objectively speaking: SKSE Skyrim is factually better than what was provided to us merely because of the memory patch. Play without it, you have gimped PS3 optimized memory management. Install and use SKSE, you have proper PC based memory management.

The need for an external launcher is necessary, and code injection was the only way they could do it legally. There's no issue of trust here, which would be the only valid argument against using code injection.

The extenders are viewed favorably by both Bethesda and Valve btw, and Valve built official support in for Oblivion on Bethesda's behalf. They didn't have to do this, but they did, and it works flawlessly. Word has it they'll be doing the same for Skyrim but news on that has been scarce.

 

Bottom line though, SKSE does nothing to alter the vision of Skyrim as provided by the developers. Only modders who take advantage of it can do that.

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I'd also voted against. Originally, I refused to buy the DLC, saying I'd only buy them after Bethesda fixed all the bugs in the base game.

 

But my Touring Carriages project required me to figure out how to handle the DLC, too -- simply to avoid conflicts. Eventually, I was able to buy them for 50%. But I still haven't played them yet.

 

So I'm with Jumps-Down-Stairs and Screwball. Not surprising, as we've long held similar views and efforts. (OTOH, I've used SkyUI since its release, and the SKSE memory patch since its release.)

 

[Heavy sigh] But I won't be able to avoid USLP. Otherwise, too many comments to answer for TC. Thank goodness it won't be for awhile.

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made necessary by Beth's godawful lack of testing before release, and after, come to that)

Yeah, the elephant in the room. If Beth had used more quality control in testing, plus in-game and CK improvements instead of releasing any DLC, we'd all be a much happier bunch of coconuts.
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Well, some of us might be. I happen to like Beth's DLCs, they do DLC better than pretty much anyone else out there. Though we shall soon see how well CDPR can match them come October.

 

They just needed to keep up on the patching rather than farting around with the PS3 and wasting everyone's time - including the teams that were SUPPOSED to be writing the last 2 DLCs we never got.

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Hate having to base a judgement on anything I don't know about. The reviews on Dawnguard concurred it either fell slight short of or was up to expectation. Some rated Dragonborn a little better, some hated Hearthfire, others loved it.

Being all there was to go on, besides comments in the forums, I never got the sense any of the DLC had the diversity, turn of dialogue or the sparkle that Shivering Islands gave to Oblivion. (OTOH the Knights of the Nine was not worth it at all.) :P

It'll be interesting to see what Beth have in store for ES6. If they really wanted to build a reputation on community involvement, why not run a poll close to the release date calling for a vote on DLCs?

"Vote yes for us to release the game now with DLC X coming in at some later date, or vote no for a better presented and tested game available in 4-6 months retailing at its current price plus whatever DLC X would have sold for."

Pretty sure where my vote would go.

Knowing full well Beth wouldn't bend to that one, as there never was, is, or will be anything wrong with any of their debut game releases. Ever. Is there? :P

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Knowing full well Beth wouldn't bend to that one, as there never was, is, or will be anything wrong with any of their debut game releases. Ever. Is there? :P

 

No, of course there isn't :lmao:

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"Vote yes for us to release the game now with DLC X coming in at some later date, or vote no for a better presented and tested game available in 4-6 months retailing at its current price plus whatever DLC X would have sold for."

 

No way, I will not pay extra for them to do something that should have happened during the course of the games normal development. That sounds like DLC to me :P

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I can't understand any objection to using SKSE at all. It's improved my game no end and the only issues I ever had stemming from it was Steam's Stealth Updates, which meant the game would not load until SKSE was updated. It was usually updated within about 48 hours or less, but I avoided even that minor problem by playing off-line and never allowing stealth updates until the new SKSE was ready.

 

Even then, I'd wait several weeks to see the feedback on whether various mods still worked properly before updating the game. The retarded and useless Horse Combat patch was probably the worst, and the multiple breakings of lip synch, which was irritating as Beth took a flawed yet beautiful game and made it look ridiculous.

 

~

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 how to quickly delay dawnguard/dragonborn to your liking with CK:

 

Dawnguard:

- Miscelaneous->Global: customize the DLC1VQMinLevel and DLC1VQMinLevelVampireAttacks to your liking. Optional, remove the constant flag from them so that you can modify them in game with console commands and persist.

 

Dragonborn:

- Add a global variable (Miscelaneous->Global), call it for example DragonbornStart and set it to 0.

- Character->Story Manager -> Change location event -> Stacked quest node: DLC2CultistAmbushNode

  Add a condition using your new global value: GetGlobal(DragonbornStart) == 1.00

-  Character->Story Manager -> Script event -> Stacked quest node: DLC2WEPriorityQuests->Quest: DLC2WE09.

Add the same condition here.

 

Now you can start dragonborn to your liking, using the "set DragonbornStart to 1" console command when you feel like it. (well you still need to be summoned by greybeards and go there, that can also be customized removing the GetStage(MQ105) )

 

 

That is going in straight in to my Essential Tips List. Thanks for that.

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Seems this skse is really good stuff. What does the memory patch change, I mean, what difference do players actually feel with it? Can it help reduce the size of saves? Can I play those saves saved with skse when not using skse?

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Seems this skse is really good stuff. What does the memory patch change, I mean, what difference do players actually feel with it? Can it help reduce the size of saves? Can I play those saves saved with skse when not using skse?

SKSE might help with save bloat, but the main benefit is that it fixes memory leaks. As you play, Skyrim continues to eat up more and more memory. Given that it's a 32 bit application, it can't reserve any more than 4GB of RAM. When it hits that limit and attempts to access more memory, the game crashes. The main benefits are fewer CTDs and support for certain mod features (if you need them).

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jeZmQ.jpg

 

 

@Arthmoor: Purely out of curiousity, have you guys tried using my Merge Plugins script for this?  I presume it likely wouldn't do most of what you wanted, but I'm just curious.  I imagine it could at least provide you guys with a base to work off of.

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Nope, haven't done that. I'm not yet convinced that the process is entirely safe to do in an automated fashion the way it could be done in TES4Gecko for Oblivion mods. So the merge work is being done by hand so we can be sure that everything falls into place the way we mean for it to.

 

It's really only going to be a matter of copying overrides for the DLC edits into the main USKP and then making sure the resulting conflicts are resolved afterward.

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