garthand Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yes, according to Beth, they did start working it in 2012 - well, actually, they give the credit to Valve. I suggest re-reading the BethBlog post again, but here's the relevant bits (emphasis added by me): So, it was "Valve time". When I read this I thought so much worse of their PR / communications abilities. If true, then why did they spend all that time keeping it to themselves and then rush through the process of contacting anyone in the modding community, and telling those few they did contact to keep it a "secret"? I've said it elsewhere a number of times - this was a case of terribly handled change management. They totally forgot to include one of the key stakeholders - the modding community - in the communication / consult before the change. It's too funny you mention change management, my PR firm just held a session on it today and I couldn't agree more. Really silly management that seems to have gone without a guiding vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crashpilot Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 It's too funny you mention change management, my PR firm just held a session on it today and I couldn't agree more. Really silly management that seems to have gone without a guiding vision. "A guiding Vision", what is that? The former German canceler Helmut Schmidt once said that people with "Visions" should see a Psychiatrist. I tend to agree with him. Elgar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt3rn1ty Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 So thats what happened to Shezrie, first sign I saw something going wrong was before the pay wall went public, Shezrie took Old Hroldan off Nexus ( I did not know why, and I had some reduced textures on my Vanilla Reduced Textures for it ), I knew Old Hroldan 2 was in the works so took my old files down too ( because there was no mod to link to anymore .. and with the assumption that they would probably need done from scratch anyway, and I wanted to redo them in Photoshop when v2 appeared ) After the pay wall surprised us all and the crap ensued, I did at one point think Shezrie would most likely be disgusted with this whole thing, but did not know to what extent she had been attacked Anyway @ Shezrie, if you read this forum - Take Good care, your excellent mods and character on the forums will be greatly missed, but your decisions are very understandable. Looks like that fairwell was a bit premature Shezrie is back - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65899/? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Looks like that fairwell was a bit premature Shezrie is back - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65899/? If she is back then why is the mod you linked to hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt3rn1ty Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If she is back then why is the mod you linked to hidden. Because she has now hidden it ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthand Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 "A guiding Vision", what is that? The former German canceler Helmut Schmidt once said that people with "Visions" should see a Psychiatrist. I tend to agree with him. Haha yeah, hallucinations are probably a serious medical condition I mean they need to look at it not just from a revenue perspective, but as one of their customers as well. It felt to me like they just kind of plopped it out there without any kind of strategy to get the community on board, then freaked out and hid when people got upset. Bethesda's general PR strategy (from what I've seen thus far) is to clam up and offer no details until they've a new product to sell, then immediately go radio silent if it's not received well. I think they could have salvaged the paid mods thing, but the real mistake was dropping this without laying any kind of groundwork for people. No blog posts hinting at a change, no discussion up front about it, nothing. It just came out of nowhere for all those who weren't involved/didn't hear from someone who was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmstearn Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Because she has now hidden it ?.Certainly back into Oblivion! http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1520610-wipz-shezries-towns/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumps-Down-Stairs Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It felt to me like they just kind of plopped it out there without any kind of strategy to get the community on board, then freaked out and hid when people got upset. Bethesda's general PR strategy (from what I've seen thus far) is to clam up and offer no details until they've a new product to sell, then immediately go radio silent if it's not received well. I think they could have salvaged the paid mods thing, but the real mistake was dropping this without laying any kind of groundwork for people. No blog posts hinting at a change, no discussion up front about it, nothing. It just came out of nowhere for all those who weren't involved/didn't hear from someone who was. I think that essentially was their strategy: put it out there as if it had always been there, as if it was the norm, and expect people to just go along with it. That's why they approached authors in private, before launching the storefront. They wanted to launch with content already available to set expectations for quality and pricing, rather than publicly ponder the idea for months, and have it be shouted down before it ever had a chance. It may seem that it turned out that way anyway, because the result was the same, but I think they were trying to head it off with a strong showing. Too bad they botched that so badly because they were in such a hurry. I'm not saying it was a good strategy, but I still think that it was a deliberate strategy. They just didn't have any idea what was buried under the surface of the community. Bethesda's clueless about their own community, and Valve's too young, it's communities too young, to know how to deal with the complex, ingrained history of Elder Scrolls modding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 To be fair I don't think the community knew what was lurking under the surface of the community either. Clearly we do not even know ourselves, so how can Bethesda be expected to know us? Rather than support fellow community members for a great opportunity, and potential for bringing modding into a favorable light in the mainstream, the community showed they are every bit as nasty and deranged as some places make us out to be. That I think is the saddest part about all of this, and it's entirely possible it's ruined the chances of this ever happening again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPete Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Rather than support fellow community members for a great opportunity, and potential for bringing modding into a favorable light in the mainstream, the community showed they are every bit as nasty and deranged as some places make us out to be. That I think is the saddest part about all of this, and it's entirely possible it's ruined the chances of this ever happening again. Those are my thoughts too. It is sad to come to the realization that a minority of the community can ruin the chances of what could have been a great thing for mod makers. In my mind, that was on Valve, not Bethesda for giving into the trolls since Bethesda didn't even know that Valve had pulled the plug on the whole thing until hours later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bethesda-talks-skyrims-paid-mods-controversy/1100-6428952/ An interesting, if very short read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaultDuke Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 some thought regarding the situation and what was revealed at E3: Bethesda will probably now host mods for FO4 on a dedicated Site of their own. it may be that we see them leaving the workshop behind, also to be able to provide said mods on all platforms (I'm sure valve wouldn't be cheap to use as a service to host mods for XBone, and Bethesda wouldn't want people to have to upload their mod to several sites just to make them available to all). this might have several consequences: no 30% for valve in a situation where paid mods make a return is the one that stands out on the "paid mods" site and the question about the revenue split. 50/50 may sound fairer in most peoples ears, and Beth would still get a bigger cut than before. We might possibly see a better integration between game and mod downloads. Anyone serious about his modding uses 3rd party tools currently. the "official" modding consists of using the workshop to download and automatically update, the launcher to sort and then the game to use. and it's more clumsy and ugly than using the nexus to download and the NMM to update and sort, then the game to use. they need to provide better solutions for this, because the current one doesn't cut it for the consoles. Currently the workshop handles downloads and updates well, but you need to clumsily go there. Mods are now kind of detached from the core game experience. this could change with an ingame mod tab in the future. Other more severe issues like load ordering would need to be sorted out first of course. So in the end, I hope they will offer a more integrated, platform agnostic approach, that leaves out the man in the middle. Then they can go about bringing back paid mods the way they want. No more Gabe making an appearance on Reddit and then pulling the plug. I'm pretty sure Pete can take more heat than Gabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Other games that use the Workshop have in-game mod handling. No reason Beth can't do the same. IMO, if they do decide to add some kind of in-game system for that it would be in their best interest to make sure they control the entire pipeline for it. CK -> mod upload -> website -> game -> menu tab that talks to website. Letting Valve control any of this puts them at risk. If Pete Hines is hinting at the future with his non-committal answers to that interview, paid mods would make perfect sense if bethesda.net has control over the whole process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaultDuke Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 my thoughts exactly. the risk factor is especially high, because the game would run on PC, XBone and PS4. it would be easier to have them all link to beth.net. then none of the 3 third parties would have much to do with mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmstearn Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 In the video Joel highlights the green section in the sale bar charts as a direct consequence of modding. That should be reflected in the divvying the cut somehow. Negotiating the cut and terms of the cut will be critical- (Valve?) and Bethesda will be there to bang their fists on the table. Who will do that for the modders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaultDuke Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 An angry internet mob lmstearn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 No, the angry internet mob just gets pissed that an option to pay for content exists even if they don't have to use it. That's not negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaultDuke Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Still it's the only kind of feedback they received and listened to. At least the only one i know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Which isn't quite correct. It was the only feedback Valve took to heart. If you'll recall, Bethesda made a nice blog post explaining why they decided to go with paid mods, only to have to backpedal about an hour later after Valve pulled the rug out from under everyone. I remain convinced that Valve only did that after Gabe took a beating on Reddit. Which was the biggest dumb move of all time - never take anything Reddit says seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaultDuke Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I think the point is that there was no open discussion with the community BEFORE the thing went live. If you come out of nowhere with such a controversial move, the majority of the voices will be loud screaming lunatics. More level headed voices will take a few days to word their ideas and make themselves heard. This was starting to happen (from beth and the community) when valve decided to end it already. It would have gone differently if this part of the public opinion finding process would have happened before thing would have been set in stone and released already. The way it was handled both sides were caught by surprise one way or the other and knee-jerk reactions on both sides were the consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Well either way, the end result is the same. You know they're going to try again, and all the press they're generating over it lately will plant the idea permanently in everyone's heads so that by the time late 2016 rolls around, nobody won't have seen it coming. The angry mob will be sidelined the way it should have been to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathbydestiny Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Isn't this discussion SO 3 months ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Heh, more or less. I think that's the idea though. They want people to keep talking about it and let level heads prevail. Which they will. Angry mobs already moved on to whatever the latest controversy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaultDuke Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Bad XBone reveal -> Gamergate -> payed mods -> broken AAA releases I wonder what's next. Probably something to do with win 10 (forced updates maybe, or dx12 exclusivity). Or something completely bonkers. AMD going bankrupt or sony maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthand Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Old topic but does anyone have any thoughts on a curated vs an "open" marketplace? I like the idea Beth had with an open marketplace so that it can become more than outsourced DLC, but at the same time it might help cut down on the amount of pure shit floating around if it was more curated. Then again, Nexus is far from a controlled marketplace and people seem to do just fine discovering what they want. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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