Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods

[Arthmoor]

Actually the modding TIME was wasted quite thoroughly since all of the mods are finished. Those who aren't putting them out there for free now have pretty much been completely screwed.

 

Since Valve has yet to tell us whether we even CAN put them out for free (since they're still listed), mine is in limbo. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to bother either. I might just let it stay in the hands of those who paid for it and leave it at that. This whole affair has left a really bad impression on me of what people still claim is a community.

[RabidGears]

For what it's worth, Arthmoor, I agree with you that you and the other initial modders have been treated really badly by both Valve and Bethesda, especially after they invited you to participate in first place. The least they could do now is clear up the legal situation in relation to your mods. Hopefully they're not going to claim that they own the rights to them now.

One thing I don't get, though, is if Valve are now refunding every mod purchase doesn't that mean that any money they got has to be given back? If that's the case then it's not like they're pocketing all the money. They're probably liable for any transaction fees as well.

[Arthmoor]

It's all wallet dollars. You had to use them to buy the mods in the first place, and all refunds go right back there. Valve loses nothing. That money is still locked inside of its financial ecosystem. So yes, they're pocketing all the money, because you can't take wallet dollars back out.

 

What we still don't know yet is if we're going to get our payouts. Since they're no longer talking to any of us we can't know.

[Zanderat]

What a cluster f*&%$.  Sorry you are going through this Arthmoor.

[Avilyn]

It's all wallet dollars. You had to use them to buy the mods in the first place, and all refunds go right back there. Valve loses nothing. That money is still locked inside of its financial ecosystem. So yes, they're pocketing all the money, because you can't take wallet dollars back out.

 

What we still don't know yet is if we're going to get our payouts. Since they're no longer talking to any of us we can't know.

 

OK, I had to sign in to say WTF?  So in addition to hanging you guys out to dry, they haven't even said if you're going to get paid?  That's ridiculous.  And you can't put the mod up on Nexus until they give the OK?   That is royally eff'd up.  (I was actually looking for it on Nexus so I could download & donate, and was wondering why it wasn't there, so thanks for clearing up that mystery for me).

[Arthmoor]

I don't know if we need to clear it through them or not. They're no longer talking. I mean, it's my work so I don't see how they could object, but you know how this stuff goes. If they get a wild hair up their butts about it things get ugly fast.

 

They could solve the problem of the participants being mad at them pretty easily. One post in the private area telling us what's going to happen with our money, our mods, and whatever else. It would take them 5 minutes. Then at least we wouldn't need to be keeping screenshot archives of things just in case.

[Deathbydestiny]

Actually the modding TIME was wasted quite thoroughly since all of the mods are finished. Those who aren't putting them out there for free now have pretty much been completely screwed.

 

Since Valve has yet to tell us whether we even CAN put them out for free (since they're still listed), mine is in limbo. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to bother either. I might just let it stay in the hands of those who paid for it and leave it at that. This whole affair has left a really bad impression on me of what people still claim is a community.

 

Which ever side you are anyone else is on, I think we all in someway wanted the best for the community. Sure some people were immature and childish and had this huge witchhunt but in the end of it all not everyone was like that. The best way to mend this fracture is to get everyone back together again, or at least try. Going away or whatnot would only make it worse would it not?

 

Don't mod for the idiots, but for the ones who do appreciate what you do and most importantly yourself. Don't give in to them and what happened. That's what "community" is to me.

 

Edit: it looks like it already happened http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65242/?

[z929669]

snip/ ... those of us they invited to join, encouraged to participate, and then encouraged to stick it out and ignore the trolls. Why should we trust them at all after that? Demonstrating that you can't keep your word is a serious problem.

 

I feel bad for MAs and Bethesda as well (given they support "open" modding) after this was shut down ... good idea (pay-for mod system), rotten way to go about it. What really irks me is that Valve and Beth sprung this system out of nowhere without consulting the larger TES/Fallout modding community ... what doubly irks me is that Valve approached/solicited (apparently) many of our community's MAs in 'secret' and that this secret was kept until the 'trap' was sprung (yes, it's a trap when it is hidden and then sprung). Why keep it a secret if you all felt it was a just thing to support? Keeping it secret is testament otherwise. Why not involve the entire community in planning and roll-out? Secrets breed distrust, and I don't appreciate Valve and the modding community insiders that kept the lid on this for so long before it was rolled out. Select MAs kind of threw their user base under the bus by hiding this thing or at least not objecting to it and pushing Valve to be transparent. Maybe some % of the user base deserved the slight (or maybe they were the reason for keeping it secret), but the vast (less vocal) majority didn't, IMO.

 

For the record, I personally support a pay-for mod system for TES/Fallout under a strict implementation that has strong incentives (a robust vetting process) to publish only high-quality and reasonable mods rather than a bunch of garbage or ripped-off assets (which is exactly where it was heading).

 

Anyway, water under the bridge, but I hope that this secretive nonsense does not happen the next try (if there will be a next try) or with regard to other movements in TES/Fallout modding.

[KNakamura]

In the existance of any project, companies USUALLY want it to be secret until they're ready. Such is the nature of anything.

[Deathbydestiny]

This seems to have spurred many to donate on the Nexus recently. I'd say everyone is much more appreciative now than before. I think this is a great outcome, and I hope this first step will bring people back together again. We are all we have, we know Valve and Bethesda don't care.

[Arthmoor]

Not to sound like an ungrateful ass, but much like the paid mods thing that wasn't given the chance, I think we should wait a couple of weeks before deciding that donations have fixed everything so we can see if this is just a temporary surge or something more long term and potentially reliable.

 

You know, data. Data none of us has yet

[alt3rn1ty]

Oh yeah speaking of donations - Robin has done his new topic on refining options he mentioned earlier .. Its another need to be logged in one for mod authors

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2814204-changing-the-new-donate-system-to-activate-on-endorsements/

[Khrada]

Although we do not share the same view on paid mods, I understand your frustration of how Valve and Bethesda threw you and other modders under the bus just like that.

But I am not a troll. Supporting a different side does not make one a troll.

 

@alt3rn1ty

I guess adding the donation option won't hurt, and a semi-nagging notification would help.

[Crashpilot]

To be frank, I do not think the donation system will really work. The workshop payment system was (is) convenient because you could put a certain amount into your wallet and pay the MODs with it, for donations I need to open my PayPal account for every single transaction and donate a dollar here, 50 cent here and five bucks there. If I use my Amex card I certainly will get a phone call from them asking if all those transactions have been initiated be me.

 

Anyway, recently I hear the term community a bit too often form people that obviously think that community is a synonym for getting something for free, and that being a self-declared member of that community gives them the right to demand that other community members give them their work without any compensation.

 

While I do appreciate the kindness of people that give me their work without asking for more than clicking the endorse button on a download side, I am also ready to compensate people that spend hundreds of hours to create a large quest MOD (Verona House Bloodlines or The Heart of the Dead for Oblivion, Falskar and others for Skyrim come to mind), a great user interface or create patches that make an otherwise buggy game enjoyable to play.

[Arthmoor]

You can also add money to Paypal and get an option to make the donation from your Paypal balance rather than directly from your card each time. At least I think so.

 

That way at least you won't have any issues with the bank wondering why you're making a pile of micropurchases.

[Deathbydestiny]

Not to sound like an ungrateful ass, but much like the paid mods thing that wasn't given the chance, I think we should wait a couple of weeks before deciding that donations have fixed everything so we can see if this is just a temporary surge or something more long term and potentially reliable.

 

You know, data. Data none of us has yet

 

I have been tracking SkyUI, things are looking good so far and people are most certainly donating. It's looking quite positive after what happened.

[z929669]

In the existance of any project, companies USUALLY want it to be secret until they're ready. Such is the nature of anything.

 

Companies, yes. I was referring to MAs who were approached for ground-level opt-in. I would expect them to leak this information to the wider community.

 

This seems to have spurred many to donate on the Nexus recently. ... /snip

snip/ ... I think we should wait a couple of weeks before deciding that donations have fixed everything so we can see if this is just a temporary surge or something more long term and potentially reliable. ... /snip

 

More donations are a fact today, but humans are fickle ... at the very least, this thing has brought "donation awareness" to the forefront, and that could make a lasting impression in the TES/Fallout modding community, particularly if the Nexus makes donations more obvious than it is today.

 

To be frank, I do not think the donation system will really work. ... /snip/ ... Anyway, recently I hear the term community a bit too often form people that obviously think that community is a synonym for getting something for free, and that being a self-declared member of that community gives them the right to demand that other community members give them their work without any compensation. ... /snip

 

The donation system does work and has been working in principle for a long time. It is just not obvious enough, but now it is getting the overhaul and attention it deserves.

 

There is a modicum of truth to that though. In a 'community', you can expect people to exchange services in a sort of barter system. This is exactly how the TES/Fallout modding community works. The currencies are pride, satisfaction, information, appreciation, endorsements, favors, assistance, and donations. I would say that 90% of the community behaves in this spirit, and the other 10% are just the same riff-raff that exist everywhere else (or kiddies that haven't learned any manners), and these are generally much more opinionated and vocal.

 

I certainly do not do any of the 'work' that I do for the community with expectations of compensation outside of the currencies I listed above. This allows me guilt-free flexibility to take 'PTO' whenever I want (although not for long, because modding is a hobby). To each his/her own though. I can't demand that all other community content contributors value the same things I value, so we should let everyone have their own sensible or rediculous opinions and focus on the people we like and appreciate.

[Arthmoor]

The currencies are pride, satisfaction, information, appreciation, endorsements, favors, assistance, and donations. I would say that 90% of the community behaves in this spirit, and the other 10% are just the same riff-raff that exist everywhere else (or kiddies that haven't learned any manners), and these are generally much more opinionated and vocal.

There's also no reason the addition of paying for mods should have changed any of that. The choice was pretty simple. Just don't buy them if you're that against it.

What data we had before the plug was pulled on us indicated there was definitely a market for it and Valve should have let it play out.

[z929669]

There's also no reason the addition of paying for mods should have changed any of that. The choice was pretty simple. Just don't buy them if you're that against it.

What data we had before the plug was pulled on us indicated there was definitely a market for it and Valve should have let it play out.

 

Agree, but they rolled it out wrong and did not involve all the key players that could have set the messaging accurately or vetted their implementation (e.g., Dark0ne) to avert any fears about some corporation coming in and hoarding mods to claim as their property for sale exclusively via SW. This was the fear and the reason for the uproar (well, much of the substantial uproar anyway).

 

They pulled it, because they had no idea how to stop the bleeding on their powder-keg move. It was all about messaging, and they failed miserably. The MAs involved could have warned about the maelstrom of insanity that would follow in the wake of releasing this thing without clarifying some key points well beforehand. Now it might even be dead because of simple communication error (which may actually bespeak that they were not decided on some of the key sticky points subsequently voiced by the community ... Bethesda seems clear, but I don't trust Valve's intentions after this).

 

Now the whole thing is poison to Valve ... it could still work though.

[Deathbydestiny]

I was never suggesting that donations would fix the problem or that it would last. But it has made people appreciate what we have/had more than anything and in turn promoted donations.

 

Here is a video by TotalBiscuit and he interviews Dark0ne and Brumbek on the subject and it's totally awesome. But it's 2 hours long so keep that in mind

 

https://youtu.be/5aavBAplp5A

[Arthmoor]

Agree, but they rolled it out wrong and did not involve all the key players that could have set the messaging accurately or vetted their implementation (e.g., Dark0ne) to avert any fears about some corporation coming in and hoarding mods to claim as their property for sale exclusively via SW. This was the fear and the reason for the uproar (well, much of the substantial uproar anyway).

 

They pulled it, because they had no idea how to stop the bleeding on their powder-keg move. It was all about messaging, and they failed miserably. The MAs involved could have warned about the maelstrom of insanity that would follow in the wake of releasing this thing without clarifying some key points well beforehand. Now it might even be dead because of simple communication error (which may actually bespeak that they were not decided on some of the key sticky points subsequently voiced by the community ... Bethesda seems clear, but I don't trust Valve's intentions after this).

 

Now the whole thing is poison to Valve ... it could still work though.

I'm not sure who "all of the key players" are, but they did contact DarkOne during the pre-launch phase. That was likely limited to the service providers thing, but he knew it was coming.

 

The group of us (about 70 or so who accepted the invitation) all pretty much told them right off that the two biggest problems were going to be the 25% cut and the perceived lack of protections for copyright violations. I say perceived on that second point because back in 2012 when the huge mess with mod theft was at its height, many of us who got invited were also part of leading the charge to get them to moderate things better. They DID do that, despite what people continue to falsely claim to this day. They HAVE improved things on the Workshop in general.

 

So they had input. You guys simply aren't privy to the things we discussed internally because they told us not to discuss it outside the group. Maintaining a confidence you're asked to maintain is not something you break lightly if you expect to be trusted by people in the industry with things like this in the future. It's a matter of integrity, and one the "community" was seriously asking us to violate to sound the alarm. Paid modding was not going to ruin anything, and though we had our objections, we decided it was worth going forward with.

 

If the problem truly is Valve and their inability to deal with this sort of thing, then perhaps they shouldn't have been involved at all.

 

In any case, the right answer to situations like this should NEVER include caving to an angry minority. Agree with them or not, the facts are pretty clear. It was an angry minority that got this shot down. The silent majority, which includes numerous mod authors, did what silent majorities always do. Sat on the sidelines and waited to see what was going to happen. I've seen God knows how many of those people now coming out and saying they wish they'd spoken up sooner to provide more proper perspective and to show that not everyone was against this.

 

Of course, there's a good reason many of the silent majority didn't comment. A good sized portion of them never had the chance because it was killed before most people even knew it existed. THAT, I think, was the biggest mistake in all of this. Not waiting long enough for actual data to come out of it and guide the process properly.

[Arthmoor]

Oh, and since people are concerned about it. Valve finally told us we're going to get paid and that the mods we put up can go out to wherever we want now.

 

4 days of radio silence is broken. Where things go from here, who knows.

[VaultDuke]

At least something. They are surely faster to act, than doing the talking.

[Jumps-Down-Stairs]

It is good to hear that they are still going to pay the authors who participated, though whether they did it out of goodwill or obligation, I'm in no position to discern. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Valve or Bethesda to have expected the groundless fear and insanity that the paid workshop produced. They clearly wanted to make a strong showing right out of the gate, with a bunch of high-quality mods available to set the tone for the market, rather than have it sit empty, or full of junk. The question is why they launched so early, why they didn't wait until those high-quality mods were available, so they could make that good first impression. This seems strange for Valve, which is known to wait until they're satisfied with something before releasing it, but fits Bethesda's method of operation perfectly.

 

Once again, it's baffling the kind of loyalty the "community" expects from its members, particularly those who have contributed the most, and gotten the least in return. Especially considering how the community has treated those members since. Valve could have asked them to sign an NDA, but instead just asked them not to discuss it publicly, and trusted them. But it seems the community values loyalty and majority rule over integrity and rights.

[Sheson]

 It was an angry minority that got this shot down

 

Citation needed.