[WIP] Mator Smash

[Mator]

Ok, well, I thought it might have been barfing on that record because it didn't load Skyrim.esm. The reason I brought in the other DLCs and Update.esm was because for Bash, they're all useful for bringing in things like leveled lists and name changes that later mods would just overwrite and possibly break something for.

 

I think what really needs to happen though is automatic tagging. Somehow either reading data from a mod's ESP description or reading it from the LOOT masterlist, or both. Having to go through the menu system you have set up for this and do it for every potential mod that might need this done is way more tedious than the existing Bash process. You don't need to become Bash, but why not leverage something its community has already spent the time and effort to work out? Yes, I know you don't particularly like how that's handled but it works and works well. Even with Sharlikran's test branches for Skyrim.

 

There is automatic tagging!

https://github.com/matortheeternal/smash/issues/42

EDIT: It was added after the video was made, so the video doesn't mention it.  In case you watched the video and noticed this wasn't mentioned there.

 

 

To be safe I redownloaded Smash and Merge. I dropped in the sample settings you posted, but I was wondering if I should add Bash Tags like delev, relev, etc.

I'll give it another try and shoot you the results.

 

BTW: I was prowling Google and noticed a "Smash-Master" zip file on Git-Hub. Does that have any relevance to Mator Smash, or should I disregard it?

 

Go for it!  Add the bash tags! 

I'm planning on providing smash settings for bash tags soon, I just haven't researched the logic behind bash tags yet because it's somewhere in Wrye Bash's source code (I want to handle things identical to bash for bash tags).

The smash repository on GitHub is all of the code for Smash.  Mator Smash is an open source application, so that's the code available for anyone to view, download, or compile.  The GitHub is also useful for tracking issues and releases.

I highly recommend ALL alpha users to watch the issues on GitHub because it helps you to understand what's available in the application and what known bugs are currently being worked on.

 

 

Regards,

-Mator

[whs8360]

There is automatic tagging!

https://github.com/matortheeternal/smash/issues/42

EDIT: It was added after the video was made, so the video doesn't mention it.  In case you watched the video and noticed this wasn't mentioned there.

 

 

 

Go for it!  Add the bash tags! 

I'm planning on providing smash settings for bash tags soon, I just haven't researched the logic behind bash tags yet because it's somewhere in Wrye Bash's source code (I want to handle things identical to bash for bash tags).

The smash repository on GitHub is all of the code for Smash.  Mator Smash is an open source application, so that's the code available for anyone to view, download, or compile.  The GitHub is also useful for tracking issues and releases.

I highly recommend ALL alpha users to watch the issues on GitHub because it helps you to understand what's available in the application and what known bugs are currently being worked on.

 

 

Regards,

-Mator

Yeah sure, I've been putting off playing for the last month to chase the perfect load order, what's another day?

Just so I'm clear, that's what "smash-master" is, just a bunch of settings? Because I looked through the folders and, due perhaps to my simple noobish mind, I didn't see ANY correlations between the file structures.

I finished my first smashing, which went smashingly, I might add. But it contained about 3,500 records and I temporarily forgot how to attach files.

Anyway, feast your eyes: log_012016_162211.zip  TestSmash_fails.zip

[Mator]

Yeah sure, I've been putting off playing for the last month to chase the perfect load order, what's another day?

Just so I'm clear, that's what "smash-master" is, just a bunch of settings? Because I looked through the folders and, due perhaps to my simple noobish mind, I didn't see ANY correlations between the file structures.

I finished my first smashing, which went smashingly, I might add. But it contained about 3,500 records and I temporarily forgot how to attach files.

Anyway, feast your eyes: log_012016_162211.zip  TestSmash_fails.zip

 

smash-master is not a collection of settings, it's the source code for the application.  However, it will host a few smash settings at some point in time at https://github.com/matortheeternal/smash/tree/master/frontend in a folder "settings", it just doesn't yet.  When that happens I'll probably share the settings here in this topic as well, so you don't need to worry about navigating the folder structure at all, really.

 

Nice smash!  3,655 records and 1,273 ITPOs. 

[Mator]

I just made smash settings for Skyrim for every Bash tag that was supported for Oblivion in one and a half hours.
Bash Tag Smash Settings

[Mator]

v0.2 has been released.  You can get it on GitHub: https://github.com/matortheeternal/smash/releases

[Drakemasta]

with the downloaded version would it be possible to get a option for "preserve values from mod" 

 

example: weightless items 

changes the weight value of items to 0

 

what every other mod does is change those same values back to factory settings pretty much and yes i have tried having it at end of load order.

 

with this option selected and set to that mod it will copy that mods weight values over into the patch.

 

also maybe have for certain values a option for "choose highest value" or "choose lowest value"

 

say you got a bunch of mods that change the value "$$$" but you need to make alot of money for say a mod like "real estate" wich has you buying other peoples houses and charging them rent and eventually buying whole holds homes, stores, temples. setting the highest value would mean even garbo would get some proffit.

 

or for damage it could make your weapons all do the least amount of damage used among all your mods so you take longer to kill mobs and the overall difficulty of the game goes up a bit.

 

just a side note i noticed it was missing alot of the "kwda - keywords" values and the "tnam - attack fail sounds"

[Mator]

with the downloaded version would it be possible to get a option for "preserve values from mod" 

 

example: weightless items 

changes the weight value of items to 0

 

what every other mod does is change those same values back to factory settings pretty much and yes i have tried having it at end of load order.

 

with this option selected and set to that mod it will copy that mods weight values over into the patch.

 

also maybe have for certain values a option for "choose highest value" or "choose lowest value"

 

say you got a bunch of mods that change the value "$$$" but you need to make alot of money for say a mod like "real estate" wich has you buying other peoples houses and charging them rent and eventually buying whole holds homes, stores, temples. setting the highest value would mean even garbo would get some proffit.

 

or for damage it could make your weapons all do the least amount of damage used among all your mods so you take longer to kill mobs and the overall difficulty of the game goes up a bit.

 

just a side note i noticed it was missing alot of the "kwda - keywords" values and the "tnam - attack fail sounds"

 

Preserve values -> I should be able to do this on a per-subrecord basis.  It's probably the best suggestion I've had for a new setting option, so I will definitely be building it.

 

Use highest value/use lowest value is actually easier to implement.  I'll throw it in as well.

 

On what records was it missing KWDA - Keywords and TNAM - Attack Fail Sounds?  More specifically, are you talking about record prototypes or a patch the utility produced?  If the latter, what settings were you using?

[Drakemasta]

Preserve values -> I should be able to do this on a per-subrecord basis.  It's probably the best suggestion I've had for a new setting option, so I will definitely be building it.

 

Use highest value/use lowest value is actually easier to implement.  I'll throw it in as well.

 

On what records was it missing KWDA - Keywords and TNAM - Attack Fail Sounds?  More specifically, are you talking about record prototypes or a patch the utility produced?  If the latter, what settings were you using?

ok never mind the missing records i forgot to select them in my patch so the problem was on my side X.X

 

the use highest value/use lowest value would only actually apply to numerical values (kinda obvious i know but meh worth being said anyways)

so stuff like damage, value, crit, weight, etc. the majority of it. not sure if i would let it be applied to "obnd - object bounds" tho cause that seems it would have a effect corresponding towards the items model and could be funky if the person uses a really funky armor and gets killed by someone hitting a part a few feet away from him that another mod removed X.X

 

preserve values might actually work for name records too not just numerical values

[Arthmoor]

v0.2 has been released.  You can get it on GitHub: https://github.com/matortheeternal/smash/releases

Downloaded this to check out the updated tag stuff. I'm not sure if I'm still missing how this should work or not, but it marked a total of 3 mods in my load order and when I built the patch from that, it patches a total of THREE records and the 3 it did weren't the result I would expect from a system meant to enhance the Rule of One.

 

Also, why isn't it putting the generated esp file into the game's Data folder where it belongs? It's dumping that into a subfolder with the chosen patch name which seems a bit odd to me, even after I told it where to find my Data folder.

 

Unrelated question that's come up a few times but never got around to asking. You made this because Bash wasn't developing quickly enough. Why not simply pitch in to help get that rolling instead? I'm sure the guys would have been thrilled to have someone who could have begun helping to detangle things over the years and Bash might be in a far better place for it, even if you did later decide to branch off and write this.

[Mator]

ok never mind the missing records i forgot to select them in my patch so the problem was on my side X.X

 

the use highest value/use lowest value would only actually apply to numerical values (kinda obvious i know but meh worth being said anyways)

so stuff like damage, value, crit, weight, etc. the majority of it. not sure if i would let it be applied to "obnd - object bounds" tho cause that seems it would have a effect corresponding towards the items model and could be funky if the person uses a really funky armor and gets killed by someone hitting a part a few feet away from him that another mod removed X.X

 

preserve values might actually work for name records too not just numerical values

 

Yeah, I already considered the data types these would apply to.  The real complexity lies in how the preserve values is implemented.  Smash's algorithms don't really lend themselves to this making sense.

 

 

Downloaded this to check out the updated tag stuff. I'm not sure if I'm still missing how this should work or not, but it marked a total of 3 mods in my load order and when I built the patch from that, it patches a total of THREE records and the 3 it did weren't the result I would expect from a system meant to enhance the Rule of One.

 

Also, why isn't it putting the generated esp file into the game's Data folder where it belongs? It's dumping that into a subfolder with the chosen patch name which seems a bit odd to me, even after I told it where to find my Data folder.

 

Unrelated question that's come up a few times but never got around to asking. You made this because Bash wasn't developing quickly enough. Why not simply pitch in to help get that rolling instead? I'm sure the guys would have been thrilled to have someone who could have begun helping to detangle things over the years and Bash might be in a far better place for it, even if you did later decide to branch off and write this.

 

First point:

Did you have bash tags on all of your mods?  It seems that you must not have.  Even so, you can apply bash tags to mods yourself fairly easily, and you can also fairly easily apply a combined smash setting with your chosen bashed tags to the mods, although using tags is far more efficient.  If you want to be helpful you could include a log (you'll have to go to the log tab, right-click, choose Filter Labels -> Enable PLUGIN, Tags, then you can right-click, choose Save and Clear OR select some log messages, right-click, and choose Copy to Clipboard).

 

Please try to not be so accusatory.  It's really unpleasant to talk with or support you when you've pretty much already made your mind up that Mator Smash sucks and is inferior to Wrye Bash and I don't know what I'm doing (certainly not all things you've said, but the vibe I get from every post you write).  I really think you need to try to be more open-minded and respectful.  If you were anyone else, I would not be nearly this civil or patient.

 

Data folder:

If you set the patch destination directory to the same data directory the program is using to load plugins it should output the plugin in there loose.  The reason the folder thing happens at all is leftover from Merge Plugins for integrating with Mod Organizer.  I'm testing now to see if it's working properly for me when I set it to output to my Data folder, it's possible there's a bug there.  Also, it might also make sense for me to just not do subfolders at all, because there aren't any assets being handled by smash so it serves no purpose even for Mod Organizer users (they can use the Data folder or Overwrite just as well).

Yes, it seems it is still using the wrong output folder even when I set it to the data folder.  Should be an easy fix though.  I can send you a dev build if you want.

 

EDIT: Here's a dev build for you, Arthmoor: http://puu.sh/mF222.zip

 

Developing bash:

I actually did try pitching in to help Sharlikran with Bash.  After seeing the state of the code, and the amount of work that had to be done, I decided it was a waste of my time.  I also came to the realization that the approach of Bash was flawed and required continuous maintenance each time a new game was released.  Considering Fallout 4 was just around the corner and Skyrim bashed patch wasn't anywhere near Oblivion, I made a judgement call and decided it'd be better investment of time and energy to work on this.  Honestly, I really just wanted to experiment with things at first, the original Mator Smash script was just me messing around.  When I realized the approach could actually lead to valuable results I decided to make it into the real deal.

[Arthmoor]

First point:Did you have bash tags on all of your mods? It seems that you must not have.

Well, I did, but it appears to only be picking up USLEEP, CRF, and Bring Out Your Dead, and I still had to manually tell it to add BOYD to the patch.

 

If you want to be helpful you could include a log (you'll have to go to the log tab, right-click, choose Filter Labels -> Enable PLUGIN, Tags, then you can right-click, choose Save and Clear OR select some log messages, right-click, and choose Copy to Clipboard).

Will do when I've had a chance to try your new dev build.

 

Please try to not be so accusatory. It's really unpleasant to talk with or support you when you've pretty much already made your mind up that Mator Smash sucks and is inferior to Wrye Bash and I don't know what I'm doing (certainly not all things you've said, but the vibe I get from every post you write). I really think you need to try to be more open-minded and respectful. If you were anyone else, I would not be nearly this civil or patient.

Nobody is accusing you of anything. I'm simply trying to tell you what my experiences are, and what my basis of comparison is for how it's working out. You're reading WAY too much into what I'm telling you, or letting the Reddit folks color your judgment about what I've actually said since they seem to delight in making it look like I've said things I have not.

 

Data folder:If you set the patch destination directory to the same data directory the program is using to load plugins it should output the plugin in there loose. The reason the folder thing happens at all is leftover from Merge Plugins for integrating with Mod Organizer. I'm testing now to see if it's working properly for me when I set it to output to my Data folder, it's possible there's a bug there. Also, it might also make sense for me to just not do subfolders at all, because there aren't any assets being handled by smash so it serves no purpose even for Mod Organizer users (they can use the Data folder or Overwrite just as well).

Yes, it seems it is still using the wrong output folder even when I set it to the data folder. Should be an easy fix though. I can send you a dev build if you want.

Ok, so I guess I should ask. If I'm running Smash from somewhere that's not in the Skyrim folder system at all, and I tell it to install to the Data folder, is it supposed to put the .ESP file where I asked it to? Does the program need to be installed somewhere within the game's folder system or can I use it outside of that?

 

Developing bash:

I actually did try pitching in to help Sharlikran with Bash. After seeing the state of the code, and the amount of work that had to be done, I decided it was a waste of my time. I also came to the realization that the approach of Bash was flawed and required continuous maintenance each time a new game was released. Considering Fallout 4 was just around the corner and Skyrim bashed patch wasn't anywhere near Oblivion, I made a judgement call and decided it'd be better investment of time and energy to work on this. Honestly, I really just wanted to experiment with things at first, the original Mator Smash script was just me messing around. When I realized the approach could actually lead to valuable results I decided to make it into the real deal.

Fair enough, but there's a whole lot of people out there who wish you'd given it more of a chance to help Bash along instead

[Mator]

Well, I did, but it appears to only be picking up USLEEP, CRF, and Bring Out Your Dead, and I still had to manually tell it to add BOYD to the patch.

Hmmm. A log will help. I'm not sure what it could be right now.

Will do when I've had a chance to try your new dev build.

Awesome!

Nobody is accusing you of anything. I'm simply trying to tell you what my experiences are, and what my basis of comparison is for how it's working out. You're reading WAY too much into what I'm telling you, or letting the Reddit folks color your judgment about what I've actually said since they seem to delight in making it look like I've said things I have not.

Alright, I'll try to relax a bit more. I just feel a bit high strung with all the attention you've been giving smash lately. I think part of the issue is that I feel like I need to earn your approval, and thus feel somewhat pressured when you have negative experiences/feedback.

Ok, so I guess I should ask. If I'm running Smash from somewhere that's not in the Skyrim folder system at all, and I tell it to install to the Data folder, is it supposed to put the .ESP file where I asked it to? Does the program need to be installed somewhere within the game's folder system or can I use it outside of that?

Yes, it should work properly regardless of where it is installed.

Fair enough, but there's a whole lot of people out there who wish you'd given it more of a chance to help Bash along instead

Owell, I can't make everyone happy, and I honestly think this work will end up being much more useful to the community in the long run. Hopefully as the kinks get worked out those people will begin see my vision for Bethesda game modding unfold and will be more excited to be a part of it.

Regards,

-Mator

[Drakemasta]

lol for me mator its getting close to replacing bash cause i find it does a better job of what i want. tho i might keep bash around as backup.

[Drakemasta]

only one place it fails at and its a place bashed doesnt even touch ......... npc data. all dem lost textures.

[Mator]

only one place it fails at and its a place bashed doesnt even touch ......... npc data. all dem lost textures.

 

You can make a new tag/setting for that in smash!  

[craigsumner]

I'm having trouble convincing smash to carry forward a fix to the INFO.VMAD field in this record from USLEEP past Undeath:

 

 [00] Skyrim.esm \ Dialog Topic \ 00039F6C <WICourierDeliveries> \ 00052249

 

Because they're so (from my naive perspective) complex, any time I decide to try and carry VMAD fields forward with smash, I tend to mark them as 'treat as single entity', and handle true conflicts manually.

As far as I can see in TES5Edit, Undeath doesn't make any changes to the vanilla VMAD value.

But according to the smash log, there is some kind of difference with the array types?

 

      INFO \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Data \ Info VMAD

      bCanAdd: False

      SmashType: Struct

        Recursing deeper

      Source and destination types don't match

      Unsorted Struct Array != Sorted Struct Array

      Skipping INFO \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Data \ Info VMAD \ Scripts

      Single entity change found at INFO \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Data \ Info VMAD \ Scripts

 

Details:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ozdgjgca8486nnv/AABtAmZfGkXPGNR0pyS5D9n1a?dl=0

 

Should I expect this to work?

[Mator]

 

I'm having trouble convincing smash to carry forward a fix to the INFO.VMAD field in this record from USLEEP past Undeath:

 

 [00] Skyrim.esm \ Dialog Topic \ 00039F6C <WICourierDeliveries> \ 00052249

 

Because they're so (from my naive perspective) complex, any time I decide to try and carry VMAD fields forward with smash, I tend to mark them as 'treat as single entity', and handle true conflicts manually.

As far as I can see in TES5Edit, Undeath doesn't make any changes to the vanilla VMAD value.

But according to the smash log, there is some kind of difference with the array types?

 

      INFO \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Data \ Info VMAD

      bCanAdd: False

      SmashType: Struct

        Recursing deeper

      Source and destination types don't match

      Unsorted Struct Array != Sorted Struct Array

      Skipping INFO \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Data \ Info VMAD \ Scripts

      Single entity change found at INFO \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Data \ Info VMAD \ Scripts

 

Details:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ozdgjgca8486nnv/AABtAmZfGkXPGNR0pyS5D9n1a?dl=0

 

Should I expect this to work?

 

Treating the VMAD as a single entity is the correct thing to do.

 

The types not matching is because not all VMAD Script arrays are sorted arrays, for some reason.  Currently, I handle non-matching types by assuming there is a change.  This is usually correct, but sometimes it isn't (I guess?).

 

Currently I don't have a better way to handle VMADs when there are non-matching types.  I think all that's necessary is treating it as an unsorted array though.  I'll do some testing to see if I can find a better way to handle this.

 

 

Regards,

-Mator

[craigsumner]

Even the most well-intentioned bug reports are a form of complaining, so I want to mention that I think MatorSmash is a brilliant tool. Your automation tools xedit scripts reduced the amount of effort required to patch mods by an order of magnitute. Now, MatorSmash has had a similar impact on top of that. Even with the bugs, it has drastically improved my playing time to modding time ratio. I really appreciate all your effort, and I would already have a very hard time modding my game without this tool.

[Arthmoor]

EDIT: Here's a dev build for you, Arthmoor: http://puu.sh/mF222.zip

Ok, had a chance to take this for a spin. I see now why it's not generating much of a patch. You haven't made it aware of most of the newer tags in Sharlikran's test branch for Wrye Bash. So it isn't picking up the vast majority of the cell record tags, even though it appears to be reading them from the mod descriptions and listing them in the "combine settings" things it generates for those.

There also must have been something else wrong with the build I used before this since the patch I did get was a bit larger this time, though still nowhere near what it should be with the information it was processing.

[craigsumner]

This is a very quick update on a previous bug which you've (at least) partially fixed.

I earlier reported an access violation bug, which the newest version of matorsmash fixes.

In order to work around the bug, I gave some plugins (ELFX and ELE) special settings which ignore REFR records.

When I started using the version with the fix, I updated the settings for those plugins to include REFR records.

The bug fix did avoid the access violation.

However, it also seems to have resulted in the parent CELL record being deleted as an ITM record, even though it has legitimate conflicts to smash.

When I set ELFX and ELE back to the settings which ignore the REFR records, I get the properly smashed CELL record.

 

The example record I'm looking at is:

 [22] ELE_Legendary_Fs_Wt_Lite.esp \ Cell \ Block 7 \ Sub-Block 6 \ 00015227 <ReachcliffCave01>

 

I hope that's enough detail. This one's a bit rushed.

[Mator]

Even the most well-intentioned bug reports are a form of complaining, so I want to mention that I think MatorSmash is a brilliant tool. Your automation tools xedit scripts reduced the amount of effort required to patch mods by an order of magnitute. Now, MatorSmash has had a similar impact on top of that. Even with the bugs, it has drastically improved my playing time to modding time ratio. I really appreciate all your effort, and I would already have a very hard time modding my game without this tool.

 

I find your bug reports very welcome.  You provide a lot of information so you make it so I can do some constructive with your bug reports, so I actually appreciate them more than anything else.  A bug report with no information, on the other hand, is frustrating.  (usually I just ask the user for more information)

 

 

This is a very quick update on a previous bug which you've (at least) partially fixed.

I earlier reported an access violation bug, which the newest version of matorsmash fixes.

In order to work around the bug, I gave some plugins (ELFX and ELE) special settings which ignore REFR records.

When I started using the version with the fix, I updated the settings for those plugins to include REFR records.

The bug fix did avoid the access violation.

However, it also seems to have resulted in the parent CELL record being deleted as an ITM record, even though it has legitimate conflicts to smash.

When I set ELFX and ELE back to the settings which ignore the REFR records, I get the properly smashed CELL record.

 

The example record I'm looking at is:

 [22] ELE_Legendary_Fs_Wt_Lite.esp \ Cell \ Block 7 \ Sub-Block 6 \ 00015227 <ReachcliffCave01>

 

I hope that's enough detail. This one's a bit rushed.

 

Hmm, thanks.  I'll look into it.

 

 

Ok, had a chance to take this for a spin. I see now why it's not generating much of a patch. You haven't made it aware of most of the newer tags in Sharlikran's test branch for Wrye Bash. So it isn't picking up the vast majority of the cell record tags, even though it appears to be reading them from the mod descriptions and listing them in the "combine settings" things it generates for those.

There also must have been something else wrong with the build I used before this since the patch I did get was a bit larger this time, though still nowhere near what it should be with the information it was processing.

 

Lol, you're so full of shit Arthmoor.

 

The currently supported bash tags as of v0.2.1 of Mator Smash are:

• Actors.ACBS
• Actors.AIData
• Actors.AIPackages
• Actors.CombatStyle
• Actors.DeathItem
• Actors.Spells
• Actors.Stats
• Body-F
• Body-M
• Body-Size-F
• Body-Size-M
• C.Climate
• C.Light
• C.Music
• C.Name
• C.Owner
• C.RecordFlags
• C.Water
• Delev
• Eyes
• Factions
• Graphics
• Hairs
• Invent
• Names
• NPC.Class
• NPC.Race
• NpcFaces
• NpcFacesForceFullImport
• R.AddSpells
• R.ChangeSpells
• R.Description
• R.Head
• R.Skills
• Relations
• Relev
• Scripts
• Sound
• SpellStats
• Stats
• Voice-F
• Voice-M

[Arthmoor]

 

I find your bug reports very welcome.  You provide a lot of information so you make it so I can do some constructive with your bug reports, so I actually appreciate them more than anything else.  A bug report with no information, on the other hand, is frustrating.  (usually I just ask the user for more information)

 

 

 

Hmm, thanks.  I'll look into it.

 

 

 

Lol, you're so full of shit Arthmoor.

 

The currently supported bash tags as of v0.2.1 of Mator Smash are:

• Actors.ACBS
• Actors.AIData
• Actors.AIPackages
• Actors.CombatStyle
• Actors.DeathItem
• Actors.Spells
• Actors.Stats
• Body-F
• Body-M
• Body-Size-F
• Body-Size-M
• C.Climate
• C.Light
• C.Music
• C.Name
• C.Owner
• C.RecordFlags
• C.Water
• Delev
• Eyes
• Factions
• Graphics
• Hairs
• Invent
• Names
• NPC.Class
• NPC.Race
• NpcFaces
• NpcFacesForceFullImport
• R.AddSpells
• R.ChangeSpells
• R.Description
• R.Head
• R.Skills
• Relations
• Relev
• Scripts
• Sound
• SpellStats
• Stats
• Voice-F
• Voice-M

Yes, and that list is not complete. Sharlikran's branch of Wrye Bash currently supports more tags than you're listing.

 

So who's the one full of shit now? Cause it's not me. You have some nerve trying to make it out like I'm lying about this or something. I have no vested interest in that one way or the other, and you have no evidence to back your assertion.

 

With that unpleasantness out of the way, what would you like to try and see why this happens? Logs? The generated patch? Something else?

[Mator]

Oh no, you got me on a technicality Arthmoor!

 

The bash tags I added are all the ones that were present for Oblivion.  I missed the new bash tags that have been defined by Sharlikran for Skyrim in his branch.

 

But, I still support more Bash tags than Wrye Bash does, and the tags in common between Smash and Wrye Bash may actually resolve conflicts on more records in Smash than they do in Wrye Bash.

 

The tags I have that Wrye Bash for Skyrim doesn't currently have:

• Actors.ACBS
• Actors.AIData
• Actors.AIPackages
• Actors.CombatStyle
• Actors.DeathItem
• Actors.Spells
• Actors.Stats
• Body-F
• Body-M
• Body-Size-F
• Body-Size-M
• Eyes
• Factions
• Hairs
• NPC.Class
• NPC.Race
• NpcFaces
• NpcFacesForceFullImport
• R.AddSpells
• R.ChangeSpells
• R.Description
• R.Head
• R.Skills
• Relations
• Scripts
• SpellStats
• Voice-F
• Voice-M

 

The tags that Sharlikran has added for Skyrim that weren't distributed in the last release (v0.2.1):

• C.Acoustic
• C.Encounter
• C.ImageSpace
• C.Location
• C.Regions
• C.SkyLighting

I didn't see these tags in the version of the advanced Readme I was looking at, so I missed adding them.

 

EssArrBee already made smash settings for these tags and posted them on the STEP thread on Mator Smash:

 

There were some additional CELL tags that aren't included in the WB Advanced Readme. I added the rest here: https://copy.com/exm982P9q0YvLHoT

 

There's probably a few more settings that aren't on that readme since it's Oblivion focused. I know that some of FNV stuff is missing for sure like WeaponMods, Deflst, and Destructible. Pretty sure WeaponMods won't matter for Skyrim. I'll make any that are missing as I find them. It's really not that hard. Smash settings are kinda easy to make and with just about every record being patchable it opens up the possibility for a lot more tags that may be needed and were never added to Wrye Bash.

 

http://forum.step-project.com/topic/6936-wip-mator-smash/?p=153077

 

There ya go.  Ball is back in your court Arthmoor.  What are you going to complain about next?

[Arthmoor]

Oh no, you got me on a technicality Arthmoor!

Considering this is a technical program and it's very life blood depends on details, one would think you'd be a bit more careful about making bold claims and then maybe pay attention when MORE THAN ONE PERSON has told you they're wrong.

But go ahead. Keep making this about me and not about the program not doing what you're saying it should.

 

But, I still support more Bash tags than Wrye Bash does, and the tags in common between Smash and Wrye Bash may actually resolve conflicts on more records in Smash than they do in Wrye Bash.

This claim remains to be seen.

 

The tags I have that Wrye Bash for Skyrim doesn't currently have:

• Actors.ACBS
• Actors.AIData
• Actors.AIPackages
• Actors.CombatStyle
• Actors.DeathItem
• Actors.Spells
• Actors.Stats
• Body-F
• Body-M
• Body-Size-F
• Body-Size-M
• Eyes
• Factions
• Hairs
• NPC.Class
• NPC.Race
• NpcFaces
• NpcFacesForceFullImport
• R.AddSpells
• R.ChangeSpells
• R.Description
• R.Head
• R.Skills
• Relations
• Scripts
• SpellStats
• Voice-F
• Voice-M

Nobody ever disputed this either, but at the same time, it hasn't yet been established which of these are meaningful for Skyrim since a lot of those are body related and their whole body system changed since Oblivion.

Of the ones on the list up there, I'd say the most immediately beneficial would be Factions and Relations, and the Actors tags. Everythign else is highly questionable since the data formats are nothing alike now.

 

The tags that Sharlikran has added for Skyrim that weren't distributed in the last release (v0.2.1):

• C.Acoustic
• C.Encounter
• C.ImageSpace
• C.Location
• C.Regions
• C.SkyLighting

I didn't see these tags in the version of the advanced Readme I was looking at, so I missed adding them.

 

I already told you, countless times, what I was referring to. Not my fault you chose to ignore me in your zeal to prove to the world that I'm a bad person.

 

EssArrBee already made smash settings for these tags and posted them on the STEP thread on Mator Smash:

 

 

http://forum.step-project.com/topic/6936-wip-mator-smash/?p=153077

That's nice. The world doesn't revolve around the STEP forums though. Expecting everyone to know to look there for stuff is a bit much.

 

There ya go.  Ball is back in your court Arthmoor.  What are you going to complain about next?

Maybe the fact that you seem more interested in turning this into a playground fight? I get it. You're pissed I'm not simply taking you blindly at your word that you've produced a Bash-Killer like pretty much everyone else has. I deal in fact though, and the fact is, this tool isn't ready and has a LONG way to go before it is.

You asked for opinions, you want people to test, yet you don't appear interested in the unvarnished results of someone who knows what to look for. Are you interested in that or not? I'm not interested in playing this game with you. Either we can exchange data and work the problem, or we can part ways and stop wasting each other's time on being insulting jackasses.

[Arthmoor]

Posting separately cause it'll be long.

 

Here's my load order, as Bash sees it:

Active Mod Files:

00  Skyrim.esm
01  Update.esm
02  Dawnguard.esm
03  HearthFires.esm
04  Dragonborn.esm
05  Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp  [Version 3.0.0]
06  Falskaar.esm
07  Wyrmstooth.esp  [Version 1.16]
08  SkyUI.esp
09  HighResTexturePack01.esp
0A  HighResTexturePack02.esp
0B  HighResTexturePack03.esp
0C  Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp  [Version 1.1.9]
0D  Cutting Room Floor.esp  [Version 2.0.0]
0E  Castle Volkihar Rebuilt.esp  [Version 1.1]
0F  CWQuartermasters.esp  [Version 1.0]
10  SMIM-Merged-All.esp
11  Signs_of_Skyrim.esp
12  stable_signs.esp
13  Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp
14  chesko_levelup.esp
15  colored constellations.esp
16  better embers.esp
17  SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB + FS + WT.esp
18  HanasFelldew.esp
19  Solstheim - The Lost Levels.esp
1A  MechaDragons - Guardians of Kagrenzel.esp
1B  Dwemer Spectres.esp
1C  Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp
1D  Legionettes.esp
1E  FA Guard Helmet.esp
1F  StormLord.esp
20  Lively Followers.esp
21  Bring Out Your Dead - Legendary Edition.esp  [Version 3.0]
22  Prometheus_BeastSkeletons.esp
23  Prometheus_No_snow_Under_the_roof.esp  [Version 2.3]
24  Better Dynamic Snow.esp  [Version 2.3]
25  Prometheus_NSUTR Falskaar Dock.esp  [Version 2.3]
26  No Snow Under The Roof - CRF Patch.esp
27  RealisticWaterTwo.esp
28  RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp
29  RealisticWaterTwo - Falskaar.esp
2A  RealisticWaterTwo - Wyrmstooth.esp
2B  RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Falskaar.esp
2C  RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Wyrmstooth.esp
2D  Cliffracers.esp
2E  Footprints.esp
2F  SoS - The Dungeons.esp  [Version 2.0]
30  SoS - The Wilds.esp  [Version 2.0]
31  Book Covers Skyrim.esp
32  Book Covers Skyrim - Lost Library.esp  [Version 1.7]
33  SkaalKidAetaCoat.esp
34  ShieldOfMagnus.esp
35  Dragon Claw Stands.esp  [Version 1.1]
36  Run For Your Lives.esp  [Version 2.0.6]
37  When Vampires Attack.esp  [Version 2.0.6]
38  Flexible Smithing (Stripped).esp
39  Ars Metallica - Legendary Edition.esp
3A  DawnguardArsenal.esp  [Version 1.0]
3B  DGA-ArsMLE CompatPatch.esp
3C  Freedom of Speech -- Dawnguard.esp
3D  Gildergreen Regrown.esp  [Version 1.2.6]
3E  The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp  [Version 1.2.9]
3F  houseofhorrorsalternateending.esp
40  IslandFastTravel.esp
41  underwater_treasure.esp
42  chesko_step418_sn.esp
43  Oblivion Gates v3 - Skyrim + Dawnguard DLC.esp
44  ImprovedHearthfireLighting.esp
45  HoldBorderBanners.esp
46  Point The Way.esp  [Version 1.0.7]
47  Practice Dummies - Legendary Edition.esp  [Version 1.0.3]
48  Practice Dummies - Falskaar.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
49  Practice Dummies - Wyrmstooth.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
4A  JC's Wayshrines.esp
4B  Shadowmarks.esp  [Version 1.0]
4C  Manor Roads.esp  [Version 1.0]
4D  Storefront.esp  [Version 1.0.6]
4E  Skyrim Bridges.esp
4F  CRF + Bridges Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]
50  tos_laintardale_hf.esp
51  tos_oakwood_hf.esp
52  tos_granitehall.esp
53  Kynesgrove.esp  [Version 1.1.4]
54  Darkwater Crossing.esp  [Version 1.0.4]
55  Ivarstead.esp  [Version 1.1]
56  Shor's Stone.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
57  SkyrimSewers.esp  [Version 4.12]
58  Raven Rock Families.esp  [Version 1.0]
59  Lokir's House.esp
5A  Bee Hives.esp  [Version 1.0]
5B  UniqueBorderGates-All.esp
5C  Provincial Courier Service.esp  [Version 1.2.5]
5D  PCS + Bridges Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]
5E  Helgen Reborn.esp  [Version 105.3]
5F  HRFixes.esp
60  Open Cities Skyrim.esp
61  OCS + Skyrim Sewers.esp  [Version 1.0.7]
62  Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp  [Version 3.1.1]
63  Serana Joins The Party.esp
64  Falskaar Fixes.esp
65  WTFixes.esp
66  Stuff Needs Fixing.esp
67  Dawnguard Map Markers.esp  [Version 1.0.1]

Here's the log that was generated:

 

SmashTests.7z

Smash stopped looking at anything past 39 (Ars Metallica). There are several more mods down there with tags you say are supported but are not being detected.

For Comparison, this is what Sharlikran's copy of Bash is currently detecting:

=== Current Bash Tags:

* Update.esm
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Encounter, C.Location, C.RecordFlags, Delev, Names, Stats
  * From Description: Delev, Names, Stats
  * From LOOT Masterlist and or userlist: C.Location, Delev, Invent, Relev
  * Result: C.Encounter, C.Location, C.RecordFlags, Delev, Names, Stats

* Dawnguard.esm
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location, C.RecordFlags, C.Regions, Delev, Graphics, Invent, Names, Relations, Relev, Stats
  * From Description: Delev, Names, Relev, Stats
  * From LOOT Masterlist and or userlist: C.Location, Delev, Graphics, Invent, Names, Sound
  * Result: C.Location, C.RecordFlags, C.Regions, Delev, Graphics, Invent, Names, Relations, Relev, Stats

* HearthFires.esm
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location, C.RecordFlags, Graphics, Invent, Sound
  * From LOOT Masterlist and or userlist: C.Location, Graphics, Invent
  * Result: C.Location, C.RecordFlags, Graphics, Invent, Sound

* Dragonborn.esm
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Light, C.Location, C.RecordFlags, Graphics, Invent, Names, Relev, Stats
  * From Description: Names, Relev, Stats
  * From LOOT Masterlist and or userlist: C.Location, Graphics, Invent, Names
  * Result: C.Light, C.Location, C.RecordFlags, Graphics, Invent, Names, Relev, Stats

* Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
  * From Description: Delev, Names, Relev, Stats
  * Result: Delev, Names, Relev, Stats

* Wyrmstooth.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

* TouringCarriages.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location, C.RecordFlags
  * Result: C.Location, C.RecordFlags

* Cutting Room Floor.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location, C.Owner, C.RecordFlags, Delev, Graphics, Invent, Names, Stats
  * From Description: Delev, Names, Stats
  * From LOOT Masterlist and or userlist: C.Climate, C.Location, C.Owner, Delev, Invent, Names, Stats
  * Result: C.Location, C.Owner, C.RecordFlags, Delev, Graphics, Invent, Names, Stats

* SMIM-Merged-All.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): Graphics
  * Result: Graphics

* Legionettes.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): Relev
  * From Description: Relev
  * From LOOT Masterlist and or userlist: Relev
  * Result: Relev

* RealisticWaterTwo.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Water
  * Result: C.Water

* RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Water
  * Result: C.Water

* RealisticWaterTwo - Falskaar.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Water
  * Result: C.Water

* RealisticWaterTwo - Wyrmstooth.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Water
  * Result: C.Water

* RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Falskaar.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Water
  * Result: C.Water

* RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Wyrmstooth.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Water
  * Result: C.Water

* SoS - The Dungeons.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Acoustic
  * Result: C.Acoustic

* SoS - The Wilds.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Acoustic
  * Result: C.Acoustic

* Book Covers Skyrim.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): Graphics, Names, Stats
  * From Description: Names, Stats
  * Result: Graphics, Names, Stats

* Ars Metallica - Legendary Edition.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): Names
  * From Description: Names
  * Result: Names

* Freedom of Speech -- Dawnguard.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

* tos_laintardale_hf.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

* tos_oakwood_hf.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

* tos_granitehall.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

* Daggerhorn.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

* Black Moor.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

* Keld-Nar.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

* Provincial Courier Service.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

* Open Cities Skyrim.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location, C.Regions
  * From LOOT Masterlist and or userlist: C.Location
  * Result: C.Location, C.Regions

* Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
  * From Manual (if any this overrides Description/LOOT sourced tags): C.Location
  * From LOOT Masterlist and or userlist: C.Location
  * Result: C.Location

I can also pack up all the relevant ESM/ESP files you may not have access to if you need them and send them to you in a PM so you can compare the description fields firsthand.