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Unofficial Patches - "Legendary Edition" or Separate Files?


Arthmoor

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Yes, well, strangely I seem to have been given access to the YASH entries. They haven't been updated since we went with the false esm flag. Someone ought to do something about that :whistle:

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Personally, i think a legendary edition will be a welcome thing once the uskp runs dry of things to fix. Currently we have reached that point for the dlcs, but the main file is still improving at an impressive speed. The end is nigh though, the last patch was mainly black pete's reports + things arthmoor found on the uesp. I give the uskp less than a year to reach the same level the dlc plugins have today.

I suggest to update the dlcs only every second cycle from now on, to cut down on the unnecessary hazzle with the different install folders. And merge the files, once the main plugin is 'ripe'

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I've been giving this some thought and honestly have been having a hard time making up my mind as there are strong arguments either way.

 

Since I don't particularly want to be indecisive, I'm going to vote "yes," but under the condition that it will be held off for a while (say a minimum of one or two more update cycles) until the remainder of the more significant bugs can be resolved in the base game (and potentially DG and DB DLC). As Gruftlord pointed out, the DLC fixes are rapidly nearing an end and "I suspect" that there will be few (if any) significant bug fixes made to them from now on.

 

As some people may be aware (and Gruftlord was likely eluding to), I was the one responsible for reporting the vast majority of the "text issues" in the last few cycles, which resulted in the boatload of change log entries recently under the text sections and may have potentially given some people the impression that there are still a lot of changes being made (notably with the DLCs). I can say with certainty that most of the text-related issues (and likely audio issues) are now addressed in the three DLCs after having thoroughly gone through all of the various quests in those using the CK. And yes, I do realize that text fixes are minor and non-game breaking issues and probably are inconsequential in many people's minds. I primarily chose to make fix files for them, because I felt it would be something that I would reasonably good at doing in order to contribute to the project.

 

While I can (in a sense) relate to the feelings of the people who either don't own all of the DLC, don't wish to use all of them, or simply wish to wait until a certain point in the game to add the DLCs (to avoid vampire attacks, etc.); I feel that after a few more fix cycles it won't be the end of the world for those people as these final standalone patches will still be a HUGE improvement over the state in which Bethesda left the game. Additionally, if merging the patches could bring about solutions to fixing these cross-DLC related bugs, then I would be all for that. Also, assuming it would indeed "simplify" things overall for Arthmoor and the other UPP members still working on fixes, I would be in favor of that as well. On the other hand, I'm not sure I completely understand the whole situation, so If merging them ends up being more a hassle than a benefit, I would strongly respect their decision to not go through with the merging process.

 

Since I am not a mod maker, don't really have the skills to make more than a simple ESP plugin, and don't ever use more than about 20 mods (including the UPs) in my load order, I'll hold off on stating my opinions about how merging the patches could impact mod users and mod developers. However, it would be my hope that it would not be too difficult for mod authors to make changes to accommodate the UPP, if the patches were merged into one legendary patch.

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Another angle is to have one esp for the DLCs and one esp for the Vanilla (cf. Oblivion Unofficial Official Mods Patch). Compromise can be less painful for some players.

It seems that folks who possess one DLC are much more likely to have all of them. Maybe another survey?

 

Failing that, I for one won't be acquiring any more assets for Skyrim. I think it has turned out to be a bit of a mess unfortunately. Full glory for those who continue to contribute by modding but in testing the undercurrents it is for many becoming more of a chore.

 

My heart says yes but the mind says no, but will remain undecided just in case there is an alternative plan. Surely there must be something better.

 

Time to move on? For TESVI Beth will want to return us to a more "orthogonal" Oblivion style of Modding.

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I've voted no  since I sometimes won't load all DLCs at once or at all in a playthrough. However, I wouldn't mind the merge all that much, since there are workarounds with other mods, and the potential upsides that Arthmoor lists all sound very interesting if implemented. 

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So I'm supposed to install all 3 DLC, yet another esp, SkyUI and therefore SKSE just to delay starting some quests? No, sorry, not an option. Much, much easier to simply not load them in the first place.

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GetFormFromFile() is too limited to handle processing a family move to Raven Rock. Several portions of the process need to be directly included in the BYOH scripts to support it, along with at least one alteration to the spouse house script. So trying to do it via this kind of hack isn't going to work.

 

I wasn't actually suggesting its use for that particular problem, just pointing out that SKSE isn't necessary just to determine whether another plugin is loaded or not.

 

I will again suggest a separate, single plugin that has requires all the DLC, and includes all the cross-DLC conflict fixes. This should make them possible to fix without cumbersome workarounds, or merging everything into a Legendary edition, shouldn't it?

 

It would set an example, encouraging more mods to combine their ESP's, and always think about the DLC when they release a mod.

 

This is exactly why I think the unofficial patches should not be merged into a single file.

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If there will be no issues with mods they rely on the USKP, then I'm completely for this. All the issues this might cause are minor in comparison to the major benefits. People will simply need to adjust

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I call the "benefits" of merging minor, and think that the issues -- mainly, requiring the purchase of all DLC -- to be insurmountable.

For the record, of the three things listed that could only be handled by a merged patch, Arthmoor has called enabling moving spouses and children to Solstheim "invasive," differing dragon skeletons can be fixed without merging, and there is already a patch file out for the axe perks.

Insofar as the amount of work required by the team, speaking as a team member myself, I'd imagine that the work necessary for many issues would be the same. I can't see any benefit to doing it work-wise.

 

I also fear that this'd set a bad precedent -- some fools'd want a unified patch for the next game as soon as the first DLC comes out.

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Definitely unified file is the best option. I hate to have 4+ .esp files for each mod just because someone can't afford to buy legendary edition with 75% discount. Also, cross-DLC issues are more pressing problems than someone not liking particular DLC.
For those who afraid to break the game, they just shouldn't update patch mid-game. :rolleyes:

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I vote 'No', because I think no one should have to buy HF (I got it and I think it's a lost of money) in order to be able to use Unoffical patches. The problem of IDs is a big one, with consequences on existing saves as previously said.

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Definitely unified file is the best option. I hate to have 4+ .esp files for each mod just because someone can't afford to buy legendary edition with 75% discount. Also, cross-DLC issues are more pressing problems than someone not liking particular DLC.

For those who afraid to break the game, they just shouldn't update patch mid-game. :rolleyes:

Is it?  How about those people who have all DLC, but don't want to play them (not all of them) in every play through.

 

The way I see it they will be forced to have all DLC installed whether you like it or not if you want to use one single unified patch just to save some slots.

 

As for cross-DLC issues you can use mods that are discussed here.

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I see Skyrim Legendary edition (or Skyrim with all three DLCs) as one complete game. Developers didn't just put new quests to each of DLCs but also added many new items, weapons, armors, perks, NPCs, artifacts, playability options etc. to the whole game and ES history and lore. The stuff that they couldn't put initially was put at a later - DLC stage. Why would anyone want to play without some of those beautiful DLCs is beyond me, but anyway - unified patch sounds great.

BUT, if that means that it will be harder for afk developers to build and maintain the file or possibly induce some more bugs, then no. Squish as many bugs as possible, fix the stuff that developers overlooked - that's all that matters to me, even if that means 4-5 additional files to be downloaded and installed. So, I voted for "YES", but with a caution and do not force it.

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Why would anyone want to play without some of those beautiful DLCs is beyond me

I would play the game without all DLC, because I don't like Dawnguard.

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The game is not forcing anyone to start all quests. But disabling Dawnguard or any other DLC with many of its features like new weaponry, armour, locations, werewolf perk tree, fantastic Aetherium wars quest, etc... you're missing many of Skyrim stuff without even touching the main DLC line.

 

That being said and off the record, my love for Dawnguard is immense and remains my favourite dlc.

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Dropped my vote in finally.  I'm going with No.  Even tho I own all the DLC, I respect users rights to play the game with or without any DLC however they see fit.

 

My earlier statement when the poll came out is still valid. Inter-DLC issues can easily be resolved with minor patches. Minor patches which can be maintained by the USKP team or as is currently the case simply acknowledged, linked and recommended (See here if unaware of such patches).

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Polling has concluded - as promised, here are the results gathered from all 6 sites:

For the unified file: 263 (75.6%)
Against the unified file: 85 (24.4%)

At this time, we do not feel it would be appropriate to cut off 25% of the user base from being able to use the patches.

With that said, support *IS* high enough that we will be planning to move forward on this within the next year. There's every reason to believe that with current rates of reporting that all 3 DLCs will have few if any significant bug fixes to come in between now and then and a unified version will make much more sense at that time than it apparently does now.

Keep in mind, the poll numbers were slightly misleading. Posts in the thread indicate a much stronger underlying trend against unification right now. Maybe after the fall and winter Steam sales things will change. For now we'll continue as we have been.

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  • 2 months later...

With that said, support *IS* high enough that we will be planning to move forward on this within the next year. There's every reason to believe that with current rates of reporting that all 3 DLCs will have few if any significant bug fixes to come in between now and then and a unified version will make much more sense at that time than it apparently does now.

 

As far as I know, what Arthmoor said in the quote above still stands. The consensus was that the idea will be re-evaluated and discussed more at some point in 2015. Lately, the focus has been on fixing the remaining bugs that we can fix first without a combined patch.

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Oh yes I remember that post. Some time next year might be 10 months from now for all I know, so I was just curious whether there wasn't any extra internal talk about it since then :)

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no additional talk that i'm aware of (maybe there was some on the chat), but Arthmoor has collected a few additional tracker entries, that list bugs that can only be fixed in a legendary patch.

So i'm pretty sure, the switch will happen in 2015. no ETA yet though.

personally i'm of the impression, that the patch log for the USKP is getting shorter now as well (in addition to the very short DLC logs), so with a years warning there will be no reason for anyone to complain about a merge then.

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  • 2 weeks later...

First of all, as a vanilla game player I completely agree with the idea of merging. But I wonder if the Raven Rock issue can be fixed with UDBP, or can it only be solved in UHFP? I'm not a modder so I got no experience in there at all.

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