Activate a mod while in the same cell the mod affects ?

[Elgar]

Hello,

 

- Rule #1 : I read in the description page of a mod that "it is always best not to activate a Skyrim mod while in the same cell the mod affects".

 

- Rule #2 : I read also and in several places that it's best not to activate all the mods right from the start, but instead wait for the end of the Helgen prologue (after exiting the cave).

 

I plan to start a new character (that I would like to keep all the way long through Skyrim and all the DLCs) and, according to the rule #2, I would start with only the Unofficial patches + Flora Respawn Fix + CRF. After exiting the cave I would activate all my other mods (scripted mods, quests mods, other Arthmoor's mods, Thirteen Oranges' mods, etc). But doing that I would "break" the rule #1, since pretty every cell would be affected by these mods.

 

I suppose I'm overthinking it and you'll probably call me paranoid, but... what do you think ? Thank you by advance.

[Arthmoor]

Rule #1 is good advice. Usually best to wait to activate a mod when you're not in an area it edits in case the save is storing temporary data that would override it somehow.

 

Rule #2 is probably more urban legend than anything. You should be able to start a new game with every mod you want loaded right from the start.

 

There are of course exceptions to rule 2. Like Helgen Reborn. You can't install that at the start or it will break the cart ride coming into town.

 

If you're using my alt-start mod, you can neatly avoid rule 1 all together since it starts you in an isolated cell that's not attached to anything. You can even have Helgen Reborn in place as long as you're not intending to use the vanilla start option.

[Leonardo]

Rule #1 is good advice. Usually best to wait to activate a mod when you're not in an area it edits in case the save is storing temporary data that would override it somehow.

 

Rule #2 is probably more urban legend than anything. You should be able to start a new game with every mod you want loaded right from the start.

 

There are of course exceptions to rule 2. Like Helgen Reborn. You can't install that at the start or it will break the cart ride coming into town.

 

If you're using my alt-start mod, you can neatly avoid rule 1 all together since it starts you in an isolated cell that's not attached to anything. You can even have Helgen Reborn in place as long as you're not intending to use the vanilla start option.

I concur.   I couldn't say it better than myself.

[Elgar]

Thank you, Arthmoor. I was not sure abour rule #1, now I know it's valid and I will respect it.

 

About rule #2, I'm not so sure it's an urban legend. I crawl a lot the forums (Nexus, Bethesda) and I saw several examples of mods which would not run correctly (or which would break something in the game) if they were started right from the start. Helgen Reborn is of course a well-known example of that, but there are more. I just can't remember examples now, since I don't use these mods now and I forgot them.

 

Maybe you know Kuertee, who released great mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I use his Fight or Fly mod and in the early versions there were problems if it was activated right from the start. Kuertee solved that and explained :

 

The mod is disabled until after stage 5 of the main quest. This is when you finally exit the cave under Helgen with your either the Stormcloak or Imperial who helped you. At this time the MCM cannot link back to the main mod. That's why it is locked. 

All script mods can't run without breaking the prologue mission. Even Bethesda made a note in one of their Scripts about the script not being active until after stage 5 because it breaks he prologue mission. Before I added this check in my mods, when my mods ran ate very beginning of the game, they DID break the prologue mission. Players couldn't progress from the head-chopping cutscene.

 

 

Another Kuertee's post :

 

As per my mods not working before MQ00.Stage 5 (which is when you leave Helgen)...funny things happen during the Prologue (escape from Helgen) when mods are running. My experience was an invisible wall between the player and the chopping block. So the game would never progress. In some of Bethesda's Scripts there are suggestions (via comments in the code) that they are inactive at the start of the game and activated after MQ00.Stage 5 to prevent problems in Helgen. That is why none of my mods start until after you escape from Helgen. When using Arthmoor's Alternative Start mod, my mod starts as soon as you leave the start cabin.

 

 

The thread he created on Bethesda's forum about that, where he quoted the comment in Bethesda's script: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1372016-player-alias-breaks-the-start-of-the-game/

(You even joined this discussion, Arthmoor.    )

 

I think I'm going to follow your advice and use your alt-start mod. Thank you Arthmoor !

 

EDIT : just found another example of a mod released a few days ago which must be activated after Helgen cart ride : Player Voicesets by ChizFoShiz

[Arthmoor]

Kuertee was talking about a fairly specific set of circumstances nearly 2 years ago. A lot has changed since then. You can probably count on a single hand the number of mods that MUST be delayed until after you pass a certain point in Helgen.

 

Generally speaking, it seems to do best if stuff that needs to run is delayed until at least stage 250 of MQ101. Or at the very least anything that needs to pester the player for something before they have full control of the game.

[DayDreamer]

For example, Touring Carriages itself was carefully designed to not interfere during the prologue (install at New Game), but can be activated later standing and staring at a vanilla carriage (install at Whiterun Stable), and/or outside at any time in any town (install in Riverwood).

 

Some of that was careful consideration of what the vanilla game was doing. And a lot of testing. Had to abandon 4 designs before I found something working in all those circumstance. Undoubtedly involved luck -- each of the current 5 SEQ do have a PlayerRef with an OnPlayerLoadGame, and I'm pretty sure I used specific reference, and didn't know about that thread....

 

I always start the game with all the U*P and Flora Respawn Fix and Unread Books Glow -- and lately a pile of Arthmoor's mods, which don't seem to interfere either.