[Skyrim] Object LOD Generation - Bugged BTO mesh help

[michaelrw]

Several months back i decided to expand my horizons and learn to generate my LOD for Tamriel and the other vanilla worldspaces, in an effort to keep my my texture replacers matching my LOD (simlilar to how ethatron offers various versions of his HQLOD lod textures that match some of the popular replacers). Anyways, the first time everything went very smooth. That was about a month or so ago. I have recently changed my landscape texture replacer and so am trying to regenerate again.  This time I have found a problem. It is either a new problem, or I failed to notice it the first time (unlikely).  Everything is set up properly, ive gone over all of my source files multiple time to make sure i have everything in the right place, etc. No major errors are being thrown, but the main BTO mesh that gets generated for the solitude arch has some problems with it. See image:

 

Tamriel.4.-16.24.BTO  (added .nif extension to open it in Nifskope)

 

 

 

So, i even tried to open the separate LOD nif files (the ones i referenced above), and translate their position so that when they were used by CK to build the BTO mesh, the pieces would be properly aligned. I spent many hours doing this, but it was basically just a waste of time.. 

 

I thought about using a different version of the mesh, either the vanilla one, or a version from a different mod. problem with that is then the incorrect texture(s) is used.  It seems that CK automatically integrate the UV mapping data into each BTO mesh. I originally thought the tamriel.LOD file could be edited but it seems that file only dictates the name of world, number of cells, x and y coordinates, etc. and doesnt have anything to do with mapping the meshes to the texture atlas (tamriel.objects.dds).

 

I know how to use Oscape, but AFAIK it only does landscape LOD and not object LOD.  Ummm.. i also thought about trying to edit the UV map of the mesh using nifskope. I renamed BSSegmentedTriShape to NiTriShape to see if it would allow me to, but it did not work.. maybe there is no UV map for this type of mesh?? I know the individual LOD nifs have editable UV maps, but theyre mapped to the individual LOD textures, not the atlas. So, i dunno..  Even if i knew how to use blender/3ds to manually fix the mesh, i still would have to figure out how to map it to my current texture atlas.. and how to redo it every time i update the

 

can any of the more experienced guys/gals answer some of these questions?? I would be exceedingly grateful for any help!

[Hana]

Perhaps something in this thread might be of help?

[Nico coiN]

You're right. Oscape only generates landscape LOD, and thus is absolutely useless in this case because you're dealing with objects LOD. BTW, it's a useful but unoptimized tool as the Solstheim landscape LOD generation I did (only for trial purpose) required a voodoo hack and took more than 2 hours and half on my computer...

 

Objects LOD generation can be achieved directly in the CK and lasts only a few minutes.

 

First of all, this mesh-part placement error should exist in all of the following files, according to the thread Hana mentioned (whose author is I) : Tamriel.4.-16.24.bto  Tamriel.8.-16.24.bto  Tamriel.16.-16.16.bto  Are you sure you regenerated the objects LOD from a blank plugin ? Because this kind of problem leads me to think that you generated it from a plugin where the Solitude exterior wall was misplaced.

 

But I'm not sure I quite understand what you really want to do... You want the LOD objects to use some custom textures ? I think it's not worth the effort just for LOD, but if that's the only thing you want then you can achieve it directly in the "textures\terrain\tamriel\objects\tamriel.objects.dds" texture (and its associated normal map), by adding an "overriding patch" you probably already own, because this objects LOD texture was normally regenerated by the CK...

 

Look at the way I 'fixed' the Hi-Res LOD objects texture for Castle Volkihar here. Look at the 4th screenshot (the mainly purple one) you may find inspiration and I hope this can help.

[michaelrw]

well, my main goal is to have my LOD mountains match my "real" mountains. It really bothers me when my mountains are gray color from far away, but then when i get closer they change to gray-brown (the color of my mountainslab textures). For me, it really kills immersion. I have remade most of the lod textures in textures\lod\  to match the full-size counterparts I use from various authors. Yeah, it may not be "worth" the hassle but I like for my game to be perfect and am willing to put in the extra work

 

You say "this kind of problem leads me to think that you generated it from a plugin where the Solitude exterior wall was misplaced" I am not generating from any custom plugin, I am only loading bethesda plugins. Ive tried generating from Skyrim.esm only, and Ive also tried from Skyrim.esm and all of the DLC plugin masters. I even tried generating from USKP plugin. I mean, i guess I could make a new plugin with a bunch of ITM records for the references that are 'out of place', but im not sure how that would be any different from generating with skyrim.esm.

 

I actually was able to fix this problem after i posted this OP last night. I renamed the BSSegmentedTriShape branch to NiTriShape, which allowed me to edit the UV of the vanilla mesh. I edited the UV to match my current texture atlas, then changed the branch name back and saved. Problem solved. But, any time I want to regenerate LOD I will most likely have to manually edit the UV mapping again. I also checked the other meshes (tamriel.16.-16.16  and  tamriel.8.-16.24) and they are messed up as well, like you said they would be. So I will edit their UV maps too.

 

I'd like to know why the generator is placing these pieces so far away from where they should be?? you said they could be out of place in the plugin im generating from, but since im only generating from skyrim.esm, i dont see how that's possible. At the same time, I can't think of any other explanation, aside from something being wrong with the generator itself. I verified the tool cache in Steam to make sure all of my CK files were in tact.

Thanks for responding, Hana and Nico.

[zilav]

An old and well known issue

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1443887-why-object-lod-generation-is-broken-in-the-ck/

[michaelrw]

wow, thank you so much zilav!!! i feel embarrassed i didnt find that thread myself!  It looks like i need to edit all of the LOD nifs and hopefully that will solve the problem. 

Worm mentioned "Many of the Solitude meshes are not accurate(misshapen or incomplete) so i am remaking them and they will be available in the USKP"  

were these taken out of the USKP assets?? because i do not see them.. ill look in some of the older uskp releases that i still have to see if theyre included.

It's not that big of a deal to apply translation to each of the 84 meshes, but would be convenient to have them as a download... it seems he never finished his object LOD project.

thanks again, zilav 

[michaelrw]

*DELETED*  (double post) 

[Nico coiN]

Awesome thread ! Thanks Zilav, it's always good to know.

[michaelrw]

Well, now im having the strangest problem. Generate object LOD only, like I normally do, it finishes and I go to source\ddstextures\terrain\  to get the texture atlas and move it to textures\terrain\.  Then i go and look for the .LOD file that should be generated in data\lodsettings  and there is nothing there.  I go to EditorWarnings.txt for debug info, and this is what i see:

 

DEFAULT: Unable to write LOD settings file.


TEXTURES: (null) : (null) is missing a diffuse map

TEXTURES: (null) : (null) is missing a normal map

TEXTURES: (null) : (null) is missing a diffuse map

TEXTURES: (null) : (null) is missing a normal map

TEXTURES: (null) : (null) is missing a diffuse map

TEXTURES: (null) : (null) is missing a normal map

TEXTURES: (null) : (null) is missing a normal map

TEXTURES: (null) : (null) is missing a diffuse map

TEXTURES: (null) : (null) is missing a normal map 


(repeat for ~ 900 lines)

 

Nothing has changed that I know of, so I have no idea how to fix this. Everything is working correctly, except no .lod file is being generated. The texture atlas and the BTO meshes are coming out perfectly. It says it is unable to write the lod file.. i need to know why, so i can try to fix it.

(ive uninstalled and reinstalled CK, regenerated editor INI files, verified tool cache, scanned my skyrim directories for any erroneous files floating around, but havent been able to figure it out)

[Nico coiN]

These error logs sound like the ones I had before I succeeded. I have rather few experience in LOD objects generation but the only time I succeeded to achieve it, I had to have all required textures both in .dds and .tga format. I also remember about a headache creating the proper folders tree... I think these 2 criterias are the keys for your actual issue. Madcat also has some training about the problem, because he's the one who generated the Temple of Miraak LOD. He may have interesting things to suugest. You should PM him.

[michaelrw]

haha its funny you mention that, ive actually PM'ed him already. I currently have my assets organized like this:

 

[path]\\SteamApps\\common\\Source\\TGATextures\\lod

[path]\\SteamApps\\common\\Source\\TGATextures\\dlc01\\lod

[path]\\SteamApps\\common\\Source\\TGATextures\\dlc02\\lod

 

and i have all of them in uncompressed targa format.

 

 

Anyway, since my last post, I was able to find some helpful info (in the OP) on bethsoft forums saying that the Data\lodsettings folder has to be present (even if it's empty) or the CK won't generate a new lod file. lol, i deleted it a few hours ago because i was regenerating everything and wanted to clean up beforehand.

 

So, once again, problem solved

I appreciate your responses

[zilav]

You don't need a .lod file unless generating lods for a custom worldspace, it is already inside the game BSA file. This file sets the worldspace size and how generated files are named, and you changed none of those.

[michaelrw]

You don't need a .lod file unless generating lods for a custom worldspace, it is already inside the game BSA file. This file sets the worldspace size and how generated files are named, and you changed none of those.

 

ok cool. thank you for clarifying that. I knew that the worldspace size and nomenclature were defined in the *.lod file, but i wasnt sure if it also contained other definitions. 

 

so, based on what you've told me:  for the sole purpose of changing lod textures (object, landscape, and/or trees), I will never need a *.lod file that differs from the vanilla file, and thus, will never need a 'modified' version. The only time I will need a 'modified' *.lod file is if i add/move objects or trees, or if I increase/decrease the size of the worldspace.

 

Thank you, very much! 'kudos' to everyone

[zilav]

so, based on what you've told me:  for the sole purpose of changing lod textures (object, landscape, and/or trees), I will never need a *.lod file that differs from the vanilla file, and thus, will never need a 'modified' version. The only time I will need a 'modified' *.lod file is if i add/move objects or trees, or if I increase/decrease the size of the worldspace.

Adding or moving objects/trees don't affect lod file unless moved/added out of worldspace boundaries effectively changing it's size. And you never want to do that for vanilla worldspaces since it might make your generated lod files incompatible with others.

[michaelrw]

ok, good to know. I appreciate the clarification!

many thanks, zilav