Stupid Bandits

[Screwball]

No idea which bit of Tracdown this belongs in. Bandits are spawning inside Lakeview Manor. Not inside (that's an interior cell) - outside, but within the confines of the building. Hopefully the image is clear enough.Let me know which category to create the bug in please - if y'all think it is a bug worth posting, of course.

Load Order:-

Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
Hearthfires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
unofficial skyrim patch.esp
unofficial dawnguard patch.esp
unofficial hearthfire patch.esp
unofficial dragonborn patch.esp
when vampires attack.esp
SBBasement.esm
SBBasementDG.esp
SBBasementHF.esp
SBBasementDB.esp
no killmoves, no killcams, no killbites.esp

SBBasement is my own basement mod - it doesn't do anything which should have any impact on spawn points.

USKP 1.3.3, the others (except the Basement) are all subscribed on Steam so should be up to date.

[Leonardo]

I suggest that you update UKSP 1.3.3 to the latest USKP.

 

You probably need to compare your mod with the edits that USKP does for Lakeview Manor in TES5Edit just in case if anything has be overriden in USKP by your mod.  Also check if there is any loose script .pex files in the Data folder.

 

I'm not saying that your mod is causing this and that's only to narrow down what the real cause is.

[Screwball]

My mistake - it is 1.3.3c which I downloaded last Sunday (11th). This isn't the first time it has happened - it has happened sufficiently frequently, over the past few weeks, that I considered it worth asking about. That said I don't recall it happening in my previous game (which I retired on 22nd of June and started an absolutely clean game the same day).

My mod adds 1 button and 1 x-marker to the entryway (of all 3 HF homes). Nothing else - at least in anything related to HearthFires. It is unlikely in the extreme that USKP (or any other mod come to that) would override the only 2 items the mod adds to the location(s).

All 4 components of the mod were cleaned and checked carefully with Tes5edit to ensure they didn't alter anything they shouldn't. If it is indeed responsible then I've no idea what could be causing it, though I will check all the Basement files again just to be certain - it's always possible a "dirty" edit crept in there somehow.

There are no .pex files other than those I created which are required by the mod.

 

Unlike many players I don't tend to add and remove mods on a regular basis, if at all, so it's unlikely to be the infamous "save game corruption" issue, though I suppose it's not impossible.

[Screwball]

Well, I've checked and double-checked them. I can't see anything which would cause this spawning issue, though I'm certainly no expert with the CK or Tes5Edit so I could be missing something. It is somewhat annoying when it happens, but it's by no means a game-breaker.

 

In case it is even slightly relevent, the dependencies are:-

SBBasement - Skyrim, Update

SBBasementDG  - Skyrim, Update, DawnGuard, SBBasement

SBBasementHF  - Skyrim, Update, HearthFires, SBBasement

SBBasementDB  - Skyrim, Update, Dragonborn, SBBasement

 

None of them depend on the Unofficial Patches - maybe they should...

[Leonardo]

Well, I've checked and double-checked them. I can't see anything which would cause this spawning issue, though I'm certainly no expert with the CK or Tes5Edit so I could be missing something. It is somewhat annoying when it happens, but it's by no means a game-breaker.

 

In case it is even slightly relevent, the dependencies are:-

SBBasement - Skyrim, Update

SBBasementDG  - Skyrim, Update, DawnGuard, SBBasement

SBBasementHF  - Skyrim, Update, HearthFires, SBBasement

SBBasementDB  - Skyrim, Update, Dragonborn, SBBasement

 

None of them depend on the Unofficial Patches - maybe they should...

Indeed it's annoying especially when you have spent many hours to make the mod and this shit happens, but if you look at the bright side you could tweak your basement mod a little so that you now have a basement with a sparring feature.

 

You know there is actually a thread about mods that's relying on USKP, so perhaps your mod might change modding a little.  Who knows what good such a discussion will have in the end.

[Arthmoor]

How do you have an ESM listed below ESP files in that load order?

 

It would probably be best filed under quests since the bandits spawn as the result of one. It's probably going to end up being a misplaced marker though.

[Screwball]

Did take a fair bit of work, more on the scripting side than the CK side - it is only a 1 room cell after all. Imagine Oblivion's "All in one Basement" in one room and you'll get the idea

 

Lol - you'd have to TCL to get in there (or add a new door to the outside, er, inside, er - confusing or what?)

 

Ahh - that thread... I'm not sure about one esp being the master of another, especially if even more tools (Wrye, which I don't have) are needed to make it happen.

[Screwball]

How do you have an ESM listed below ESP files in that load order?

 

It would probably be best filed under quests since the bandits spawn as the result of one. It's probably going to end up being a misplaced marker though.

 

The usual way I suppose - moved them in the built-in Load Order dialog. In a previous thread of mine it was suggested that the order should be (essentially) Beth stuff (update + DLCs), unofficial patches, other stuff. So that's what I did.

The ESM was originally the whole lot in one ESP - until the day I disabled one of the DLCs and Skyrim refused to load. That kinda forced me to make the basic part an ESM with the "DLC add ons" as ESPs which depended on the ESM. I just kept them grouped together.

 

I'll create a Bug entry for it in Quests - does sound, I agree, like a misplaced marker.

 

[Edit] Bug #13434 [/Edit]

[Arthmoor]

Ah, so from the official launcher then. What it doesn't tell you is that the engine will always load ESM files before ESP files. Other mod management tools like Bash and NMM won't let you shuffle things the way you have them there because of that.

[Screwball]

 So the game loads ESMs first? Shouldn't cause a problem then, as the ESM only depends on Beth stuff and my ESPs need the ESM loaded earlier anyway. I can change the load order (in the Launcher) but it won't have any real impact, if I understand correctly.

[NightStar]

 So the game loads ESMs first? Shouldn't cause a problem then, as the ESM only depends on Beth stuff and my ESPs need the ESM loaded earlier anyway. I can change the load order (in the Launcher) but it won't have any real impact, if I understand correctly.

 

You do.

[Leonardo]

 So the game loads ESMs first? Shouldn't cause a problem then, as the ESM only depends on Beth stuff and my ESPs need the ESM loaded earlier anyway. I can change the load order (in the Launcher) but it won't have any real impact, if I understand correctly.

Yes.

 

The game always load the esm first and only then the esp will be loaded after, which is why we have a need for BOSS to sort the loadorder just to minimize mod conflicts.  Of course not every mod conflicts can be solved with BOSS but it helps a lot. 

 

Again yes it will have an impact by changing the loadorder in the Skyrim launcher.

[Screwball]

@NightStar - There's a first time for everything

@Leonardo - But only if they're in totally the wrong order? Provided the ESM comes after the DLCs on which it depends then the ESPs could (at least in theory) come anywhere after that. Only problem I can see happening is if some other mod completely rebuilt the house so my button and x-marker were no longer in an appropriate position. That would be possible if I had loads of mods doing gods know what to the basic houses (which I don't).

I should probably point out at this point that my Basement is not publically available anywhere so the only person who could possibly have a problem with it - is Me!. I built it because I missed having the "All in one basement" from Oblivion. I noticed the other day that there is a similar mod on Steam so folk can have that one, if they feel the need 

[Screwball]

Slight bump to this as it contains most of the necessary information (rather than starting a new thread and reposting old info).

 

I currently have Update and USKP Beta 2.0.0 in my load order. My "basement" is really just a .esp renamed to .esm and with the flag flipped. It needs to be a .esm because I can't (if I understand this at all) make one esp the master of another esp.

 

The load order (due to the patches being "false esms") has changed, so the question is - where should my esm go in the load order? After any DLCs and associated patches (as in my spoiler in the 1st post, but with the order changed to DLC > Patch > DLC > Patch etc) or something else?

 

I just purchased Breezehome (but haven't entered it yet) so I'd like to add my basement (just the esm at this stage) correctly before continuing with the game.

[tyrel68]

so thought this was going to be an AI bandit thread XD they are stupid haha

[Screwball]

No AI for Bandits - just AS (Artificial Stupidity)

[Arthmoor]

Your mod should follow on somewhere after all the official DLC and unofficial patches. BOSS should be able to take care of this already.

[Screwball]

 I had an idea that would be the case, so basically it's the same as in my initial spoiler above except for the patches following the dlcs immediately rather than all the dlcs then all the patches. Cool, I can live with that

[Wormheart]

I can confirm this happening with no mods installed (only the unofficial patches). They seem to occasionally get trapped "inside" the house mesh. It's as if they "wander" around the area before the house mesh is loaded and then get trapped when it does load.

I had a giant trapped "inside" my house once. I was trying to get him out or kill him, but instead he killed me, reloading the save caused him to appear outside the house properly.

Moving the spawn point further away from the house might fix the problem.

[Arthmoor]

The spawn points for these giants, bandits, wolves, etc are already ludicrously far away from the house. They're radiant quests - they use markers with special location types on them. The only qualifying ones for Lakeview are halfway down the hill toward the lake behind the house. Well outside the structural footprint.

[Screwball]

 Could this have anything to do with Pathing - how random spawns decide where to go based on the terrain? Bearing in mind that pre-Hearthfires the location was just normal wilderness like most of Skyrim, does (could) HF do anything specific to mark the whole construction area as "off limits"?