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The Skyrim Misc Patches Collection - aka USKP_AddOn


Arthmoor
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-2nd part-
 

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[03] SMPC.esp \ Armor Addon \ 0008969A <ElvenCuirassAA> - Ditto.

[03] SMPC.esp \ Armor Addon \ 000896A2 <ElvenCuirassLightAA> - Ditto.

Yes, you did it, right after my report here. It was a wrong bug-fix there since 1.2.7 BTW, and nobody else (strangely) reported it...
I still fail to see why female armor needs a fix you say is still necessary. You didn't comment on the bugtracker after I wondered why...
https://afktrack.afkmods.com/index.php?a=issues&i=12964

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[03] SMPC.esp \ Armor \ 00013968 <ArmorDragonplateShield> - He's actually breaking this. Dragonbone shields are correctly flagged in vanilla as heavy shields. So there is no logical reason for why they should be changed to use light shield impact sets.

In fact I didn't flag it as heavy armor. I just changed the sound impact of the shield, which is nothing that would break the game at all or change gameplay.
 

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[03] SMPC.esp \ Armor \ 0001B3A0 <ArmorScaledGauntlets> - Had this been reported in some way, it would have been fixed just like the fix for the Bone Hawk Rings in the UDGP. (Sets the item to DefaultRace so it will show up properly on custom races. There is precedent for this sort of fix going all the way back to the Unofficial Oblivion Patch.)

So what's the problem here? I did implement a fix in my mod.
 

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The next several bits are for guard shields, and it's a subject of debate as to whether it's really a bug that they are classified as heavy armor.

Yep, I agree it's still debatable if it's a vanilla game oversight or something really wanted by Bethesda. I kept a position and decided to mark them as light since they are held by guards (wearing all light armors, except this) and...
 

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[03] SMPC.esp \ Armor \ 0009E023 <MS06ShieldL12> - His fix blocks out the proper one from the USKP. The Shield of Solitude is a notable exception to the previous pattern of guard shields and should be correctly flagged with data for heavy shields.

... also for this reason. :) This can be read as a clue for all guards shield to be light and not heavy. Coherent with the change I did, it had to be revert-patched as well.

Consider this change like the assumptions you did in the USKP about Mjoll's Grimsever, because she was flagged as 2 handed...
 

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The remaining 4 in the Armor group are different versions of the Shield of Solitude, and all of his fixes for these block the proper ones in the USKP

Please, read above. Of course I kept them coherent.
 

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[03] SMPC.esp \ Cell \ Block 0 \ Sub-Block 2 \ 00013A88 <DawnstarBeitildsHouse> \ Persistent \ 00013C11 - Not sure what he's doing this for, it's an issue the USKP has had fixed for ages now.

With the help of manny_gt we fixed tons of doors like this. Yes, in our process we duplicated your single fix too. I can safely remove it from my fixes, no prob. Just an oversight you bring here as a big proof of my bad work....
 

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[03] SMPC.esp \ Cell \ Block 0 \ Sub-Block 2 \ 0002D3E8 <GoldenglowEstate02> \ Temporary - No report has ever been filed for whatever these changes do. They do not appear to be actual bugs in need of fixing. They appear to be subjective visual enhancements.

Wrong. Since other houses of vanilla Skyrim already had this implemented we concluded it was a bug/incomplete work indeed, and applied the proper fix to all known houses. For this reason it's a fix for us and an improvement lore-friendly and not subjective.

 

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[03] SMPC.esp \ Cell \ Block 0 \ Sub-Block 9 \ 00013812 <WinterholdKorirshouse> \ Persistent \ 000175BE - Another farmhouse door we already fixed.

Good catch! 2 duplicated fix on tons of fixes of this kind we did... ;)
 

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In fact, there's so many of the subjective visual stuff, listing it all would get silly, but it's there.

Not at all.


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-3rd part-
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Cell \ Block 4 \ Sub-Block 1 \ 00037B76 <Avanchnzel02> \ Persistent - All changes here are things we fixed already.

Yes, I DID the fixes I wanted to implement and then discussed with you in private AFAICR...
You postponed them so long I did include them in the SMPC. Now I can finally remove them as far as I can see... that's good.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Cell \ Block 4 \ Sub-Block 1 \ 00037B76 <Avanchnzel02> \ Temporary - While technically this is a bug, there's little reason to worry about changing it.

I did it. What's the problem?
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Cell \ Block 5 \ Sub-Block 1 \ 000151F3 <SoljundsSinkhole01> - All of the objects in this section can be edited to hell and back all he wants, it does not solve the underlying problem with the room bounds configuration, and thus he has not actually fixed anything here. The objects still become invisible at certain angles, and only messing with the room bound boxes will correct it.

Please, give me these angles... I can't find them.
It was a level design bug I reported here, and preferred to workaround as best as we can: always better to see the spikes than got hit by invisible trap, so I finally made this public for a better game experience. Even it's not perfect it's better than vanilla.
No problem, again...
http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/12054-soljundssinkhole01-traps-bug/
 

 

The one problem which actually did exist - a gap in the floor - was corrected by a USKP update, so his additional material here is going to conflict with that as well.

Nonsense. No conflict and no issues as I did it well, taking care of everything USKP already patched.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Cell \ Block 5 \ Sub-Block 5 \ 000165A3 <WhiterunDragonsreach> \ Temporary - The wine bottle issue was fixed, despite his claims otherwise. The addition of a candlestick is not associated with any known game bug and falls squarely into the subjective visuals category.

Game-breaking huge change. You're right! :D
FYI, there's a light spot without a source there, that's why I added the candlestick.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Container - Entire group of container changes, may be bugs, may not be, but it's never been reported as such despite him claiming otherwise.

Never said I did. You're putting in my mouth something I never claimed for.
Do you remember? At one point I decided to start my own project so I stopped reporting them here; all so simple. That's all.
 

The dialogue group is really too big to go through,

I'm sorry for you. Is documented in the SMPC changelog.
 

and the vast majority of it has no apparent reason for being changed

Thank you for your (wrong) opinion.
Since they fixed some unnatural NPC behaviors and not breaking anything, I did implement them.
...Just like Vivienne Onis saying she's busy when out of her working AI Packages... but you probably missed it and didn't pay enough attention before saying they have been changed with no reason.

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- 4th part -
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Door \ 0001BFFC <MrkDoor01> - As discovered with other similar door sound fixes, this is ineffective. The door sound has to be changed on the mesh for those that are not being used as load doors. This one isn't.

You're wrong. It works with that door in Markarth so this was the simplest solution. Try yourself.
The other kind of fix you mention, and I'm aware of (sorry, you're not the only one to know something about CK and mehes...), in effect was necessary to fix other kind of gates exactly as I did for the SpatioGate.nif (Thalmor embassy) and mentioned in the SMPC changelog.
http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/13079-no-sound-for-thalmor-embassy-gates/
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Effect Shader \ 000EBEC0 <SkeletonNecroBirthFXS> - We've fixed this, even though he still insists we did not. Though it took much debate on the subject due to it requiring some awfully specific things to happen which were difficult to reproduce. Only one of our team members was ever able to do so, and that wasn't consistently either.

It was a random (sure!) but yet annoying bug, reproducible if you had insisted as NightStar did. Since I was the author of this fix in the bugtracker, and you were still skeptical and hard to convince, I just implemented it in my SMPC before you did. That's all.
It was a VERY old bug (one of the first bugs I ever reported, I guess) in the old bugtracker, and very happy to have finally found a fix because I'm hardheaded ;)
http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/3774-malkoran-double-face-bug/

 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Impact \ 000D30A0 <WPNArrowVsFleshImpactLG> - No report has ever been filed for whatever the problem is here.

No arrow sound when hitting dragons AFAICR. This fixed it. Mentioned in the SMPC changelog.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Non-Player Character (Actor) \ 00085D41 <SarthisIdren> - We fixed this issue already.

1. I did it first after one user report on my SMPC Nexus page, so you actually duplicated it later, not the contrary... ;)
2. It was not documented in USKP changelog. Good to hear.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Non-Player Character (Actor) \ 0009F83A <dunBluePalaceMareMaiden> - No indication as to why this needed to be done. No report was filed.

Please, read the SMPC changelog. It's documented.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Package \ 00018959 <WhiterunInnkeeperPackage> - Entirely subjective change.

Oh yeah. Another game breaking subjective change I guess? I did just change the walking speed of innkeepers like Hulda from Run to Jogging to be slightly more natural since it was strange them running like crazy for example after they escorted player to his/her room.
Yes, very small change with no impact at all. Safely ignore it if you don't like it.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Package \ 00027EB0 <MQ302CouncilGalmar1> - No indication as to what problem is being fixed, the only known issues with MQ302 packages was dealt with.

Documented in the changelog.
 

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- 5th part-
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Quest \ 0001B112 <DialogueGenericScene04> - Ditto.

Documented in changelog 1.22.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Quest \ 0001BB9B <DA14> - Ditto. Also blocks the typo corrections the USKP makes in other journal entries for this quest

This fixes a problem with the quest DA14. Documented in the changelog.
Sorry for the typo fix. Since my native language is Italian I've probably missed this specific fix in the English translated version of my mod. I'll add it ASAP.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Quest \ 00032926 <MQ106> - No indication of what's being fixed here. MQ106 has no reported issues.

Documented in the changelog avoids Delphine doing innkeeper things when waiting for player return... NPC behavioral improvement. Nothing scary.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Quest \ 00055BFD <MS08ArgueQuest> - A "fix" for something we've long ago verified isn't even a problem, or is the result of mod conflicts that people hid from us at the time.

Wrong.
Fixes a random race condition in the dialogues with the two Alikr talking to an invisible guard looking for Saadia in WR, at least if Dawnguard plugin is installed.
As you said your member NightStar too reproduced the issue.
http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/12656-alikr-warriors-at-whiterun-scene-without-the-guard/

It's a harmless fix anyway: just checks if guard is near to start the conversation.

It's near as it should be? All right.

It's not? Skipped the dialogue and they come to player asking if he/she has seen a redguard girl. Nothing to be worried about, once again.

 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Quest \ 000A2BC6 <DialogueWhiterunCarlottaBrenuinScene1> - No indication as to what the problem is. No report was filed.

Another fixes of mine for a better NPC behavior: Carlotta says to Brenuin not to make her customers flee away because of his smell, even after-work in The Bannered Mare.
Totally harmless.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Quest \ 000B668C <DialogueRiftenSS04> - Ditto.

Same as above. Read the SMPC changelog.
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Quest \ 000D9B64 <FreeformIvarstead02> - This issue is not an actual bug.

As a fact it's not a bug but an improvement mentioning also Nerfi in the journal for a better player reminder (since you talk with him only in the village). Perfectly lore-friendly and coherent with the before/after dialogues. Where's the problem?
 


-next-

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- Last part -
 

[03] SMPC.esp \ Scene \ 000565A9 <MS04Vision13Scene> - Overrides our fix for the scene, gives no indication as to why such radical changes are necessary. No report was filed for this.

As far as I can remember there was an interesting PM conversation we had about this fix I started to work on that aimed to fix and restore the last scene of quest MS04.... And then I implemented my own version in SMPC 1.20, much before the USKP fix release.
There is no radical change at all anyway, but a little improvement compared to the USKP fix: there's a distance trigger to start the scene or you couldn't hear Breya and Roots at all since the scene started too early and you have to turn left and walk through a hallway first. That's it.
 

3. Subjective enhancement and thus not actually a bug.

Not at all. Always a reason (seethrough, clippings, disappearing rocks under some view-angles etc.). I don't waste my time patching things randomly, as you did for example with trees like A073F and other wild and totally unnecessary fixes.
 

4. Wild edit that should be removed.

Do that and you'll remove many fixes. Cleanup maintenance to avoid USKP/SMPC duplicated fixes will be applied in next updates as I always did... 

So, to sum up.... All I can see are just some harmless duplicated fixes (that I'll clean-up with next updates, because I still love USKP, even if my patches came first sometimes I'll give priority to the USKP...), plus a 2-3 small changes, and many fixes!
Nothing that can really corrupt or break something in the game as you incorrectly continue to claim and caused my irritation!
Please, also notice all has started because of your denigrating messages on some forums users reported to me! I contributed to the USKP in the past, until I found you were spreading lies (or call them "wrong influent opinions disregarding the other's work")!
Hope it's finally clear my position where I just reacted to the campaign YOU involuntarily or voluntarily STARTED... I've just defended our good work on the SMPC.

I can't exclude there have been also some misunderstandings on both parts, but that's the truth.
:devil:




 

So yeah, if you read this far:
tl;dr: We're not full of shit. The evidence speaks volumes.


In effect, your wrong assumptions spreading incorrect and dangerous wrong infos about my mod, have just been exposed proving there is nothing really dangerous and harmful using SMPC. No broken quests. No corruptions at all.

Keep up the good work with the USKP, pay more attention to user reports, and cheers to the UPTeam members who did a tremendous work! Yes, really :)

P.S.
Sorry for my bad English if I did some errors...

-Stop-

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well, thank you for the detailed explanation.

 

i think both of you have made their point clear.

so i'll do the same with mine as well:

i wish you'd manage to work together again.

 

from what it looks like, there are 4 categories of content in SMPC, and i want to lay out what i would prefer happened with these:

 

2) fixes, that are not covered by the USKP, but would be included, were they reported. it is easy to imagine what solution most would prefer.

 

2) fixes that cause some controversy: revisions of USKP fixes, bugs in the USKP, fixes that may make a few members nervous/object to the method used, but still valid bugreports.

those need a bit of discussion, and maybe a few extra eyes to find a good solution.

Sklerocephalus has done a few of these in recent months. see his revision of the Weapon racks, that ended up replacing the USKP fix from before. that one got a rather long discussion thread here, and in the end everyone was more than happy.

or see here:

http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/13395-dawnguard-more-placement-errors/#commentsStart

a revision of the trap scripts, that may very well fix the sound and wire traps, while still keeping the USKP fixes. better than the old solution, but also better than your "reverting of the USKP fixes". it takes a bit of perseverence to get these through.

uploading a fix and opening a discussion are valid options and have helped with some such revisions in the past.

 

3) taking a different approach to fixing something (different shield sounds e.g.): these i think are what i would like to see from a mod like SMPC. also: reverting unpopular fixes is a valid thing i guess. some of the fixes have stirred a bit of controversy for no apparent reason other than users own preferences. these include changes to one follower's outfit, the fix to the restoration potion loop, or the necromage/vampire exploit. separate mods, that keep users from abandoning thousands of bug fixes due to a single issue is a good thing in my oppinion. i could see those collected on one mod page. best kept modular of course.

 

4) fixes outside the skope of the USKP. things like the flora respawn fix, or fixes requiring SKSE. or some of the changes from the SMPC. those are good fixes all, but some may want to have them, and some may not. it is good to have those, but i prefer them modular, too.

 

 

so, i think there is nothing wrong with bugfixes objecting to USKP "guidelines". there is a place for those. but it is obviously not the USKP.

for everything else though, i think it is in the communities best interest to get (keep) the efforts on these combined. (see New Vegas' fix mods histories, if you want to see, why)

this sometimes requires a bit of patience, willingness to leave ones egos behind, and an open mind to discussions and rejections.

the USKP has proven to be open to all these, rejecting it's own outdated and subpar fixes and improving on them if needed. but this requires the same flexibility from every contributor. sometimes you have to let your own things go, trusting in the teams ability to provide a better solution than your own come time.

in the end, bugfixing Skyrim has come this long way, because it is and always has been a team effort. and a team lives from the very belief, that together, the solution we can find will be better than what we individually will achieve.

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@Hexaae:

 

Well obviously shining the light on things was the only way you'd ever acknowledge them. You have an awful lot of "well, what's wrong with that" responses to a few very selective things. I think that's mainly the issue most of us have had with what you're doing. That you're not accepting that we may in fact have a solid, evidence based reason for not going along with things like the mesh stretch fix you did - though that hasn't been a huge issue unto itself.

 

You keep claiming to have had all these PM conversations. No such thing ever happened. You simply failed to respond to 99% of the efforts I made in private to resolve these things, then decided to make up a whole lot of crazy shit about myself and our team here. You can surely understand how that didn't sit well, so I responded with a factually based evidence backed argument here in the OP. It seems to have finally been at least party effective - you finally addressed it though still won't admit where you're making subjective choices vs actual valid bug fixes.

 

I stand by my analysis of the file. Check it yourself, you won't find a single make up thing in that post.

 

@Gruftlord:

 

I've never said we don't want his contributions, despite what he thinks and is claiming. Not everything will be accepted and I think you probably hit the nail on the head that it's ego based more than anything. Reproducibility is still 100% necessary though. It's not possible to fix that which we cannot replicate, and I get that some people are not happy with that approach, but what do they expect us to do? Blindly throw edits at stuff? Good God, people already accuse us of that NOW based on stuff like what Hexaae is telling people.

 

One of our people being able to reproduce a bug twice out of 5 attempts doesn't cut it, never will. Like a bug I just closed last night after it sat in our tracker for ages that I was not able to verify on an uncontaminated vanilla save after several attempts. Everything the reporting party claimed would break did not, every quest stage they claimed would not execute did. There's nothing to work with on reports like that.

 

So yeah, your points:

 

1. If it's a bug, it needs to be reported to us. We don't go fishing elsewhere for them. So if someone finds one and would like it fixed, we have to know about it first. Someone else fixing it and then lying saying we knew about it and did nothing ought to be a pretty big red flag to people.

 

2. I would consider fixes for things the USKP broke to be part of #1. We test shit, heavily, but as you might expect there are few of us and millions of users and plenty of those millions will just assume the USKP broke something even if it didn't. So we need a proper report with reliable reproducibility.

 

Improvements to other fixes. You covered that well enough. The approach Sclerocephalus took in arriving at a comprehensive fix to the broken down weapons rack system is exactly how more involved things should be handled. Simply telling us "your fix sucks and I'm doing it better so fuck you" isn't going to fly. Ought to be obvious why nobody is willing to work like that :P

 

3. Controversial stuff. 99% of the time it's because "you took away my exploit". Seriously, that's it. Yet Bethesda does this and you don't see anyone whining when THAT happens. So I don't get that, and never will. A bug is a bug.

 

4. A fix requiring SKSE isn't entirely out of the question as long as non-SKSE users won't end up with game problems because it's in there. The UOP includes a couple of OBSE-only DLL fixes for specific issues that couldn't be dealt with any other way, so something like that isn't out of scope for the USKP either as long as the fix is properly labeled as requiring it.

 

The flora respawn thing is only out of scope because it requires a radical change to the fundamental structure of base game objects. That one falls under the same category of stuff as "we don't touch landscape". Stuff like this is really something Bethesda NEEDS to fix rather than letting it languish.

 

-----

 

Anyway. That aside, I've got no issue with Hexaae making reports here, never did. My main beef is the way in which he's going about telling people that SMCP is necessary because we're flakes. Honestly, that needs to stop before any real progress can be made.

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Gruftlord, I totally agree with you.

 

By my side I've nothing against USKP as I still recommend it to all users as you can read in my Nexus comments and forums I follow. I really have nothing against USKP, which is a huge work, but a few errors (just like in my mod) are still possible... Starting a personal project after I repeatedly asked (and uselessly waited for) a reply or further comments from Arthmoor shouldn't be read as something offending their hard work, it was just a consequence and I just decided to go on my own...

Some misunderstandings on both sides? Maybe...

 

I was shocked to read those denigrating mud by Arthmoor against my mod instead. Unjustified and wrongly reported as critical bugs they influenced some people, suspicious of our hard work! This is what I call FUD and denigrating, and after the 10th user report this started to irritate me...

 

All we want is a better, bugless as we can, Skyrim experience so why starting stupid flames and accusing the others hard work with generic phrases instead of cooperating? Don't be surprised I left the USKP bugtracker and stopped reporting and submitting my fixes! I've learned some important things from Arthmoor, Hana, Lorelai and all other memebers here and possibly in rare cases vice-versa, but due to Arthmoor's recent bad behavior I suspended my collaboration. If he had found errors in the USKP_addon/SMPC why not politely reporting them to me? That's what I expected, not a FUD campaign without an honest confrontation based on bug-reports...

 

 

 

However, let's forget about all this stupid old flame (I did not start!)... I'm a very open-minded person. I have no problem to report other issues and discuss other bugs here if Arthmoor stops with FUD campaign (you think it's an incorrect and offending term? Wikipedia explains the meaning of "F.U.D." which is fundamentally correct in this case IMHO...) against my mod. I'm always open to accept bug reports if he has something to say about some of my fixes or he finds errors. Be sure I'll be the first to correct them, if proved, since I'm still playing Skyrim and I don't want a buggy and unstable game of course! That's the correct and polite way to proceed IMHO. I offer my hand for fixing some bugs together but I expect at least not to read again senseless accusations from him, as adult, cooperating modders should do... if he has documented bug reports/errors, he's welcome and I'm not infallible.

 

We all want the same thing after all: a better gaming experience without ugly suspension of disbelief-breaking bugs! ;)

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2. So we need a proper report with reliable reproducibility.

I wish every bug would be reproducible as this bug I recently reported to the bug tracker, which had documentary pictures included both for my character plus my followers in tow and Hana confirmed my bug report. :)

 

Unfortunately sometimes it won't happen and therefore a discussion is definitely needed to get every aspect of everything when it's necessary.

 

Finally, I think that the USKP team with every user who have submitted a valid (reproducible) bug report does a remarkable job to improve the effectiveness of the USKP in Skyrim.  Thank you all for the hard work on USKP:unworthy:

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Gruftlord, I totally agree with you.

 

By my side I've nothing against USKP as I still recommend it to all users as you can read in my Nexus comments and forums I follow. I really have nothing against USKP, which is a huge work, but a few errors (just like in my mod) are still possible... Starting a personal project after I repeatedly asked (and uselessly waited for) a reply or further comments from Arthmoor shouldn't be read as something offending their hard work, it was just a consequence and I just decided to go on my own...

Some misunderstandings on both sides? Maybe...

 

I was shocked to read those denigrating mud by Arthmoor against my mod instead. Unjustified and wrongly reported as critical bugs they influenced some people, suspicious of our hard work! This is what I call FUD and denigrating, and after the 10th user report this started to irritate me...

 

All we want is a better, bugless as we can, Skyrim experience so why starting stupid flames and accusing the others hard work with generic phrases instead of cooperating? Don't be surprised I left the USKP bugtracker and stopped reporting and submitting my fixes! I've learned some important things from Arthmoor, Hana, Lorelai and all other memebers here and possibly in rare cases vice-versa, but due to Arthmoor's recent bad behavior I suspended my collaboration. If he had found errors in the USKP_addon/SMPC why not politely reporting them to me? That's what I expected, not a FUD campaign without an honest confrontation based on bug-reports...

 

 

 

However, let's forget about all this stupid old flame (I did not start!)... I'm a very open-minded person. I have no problem to report other issues and discuss other bugs here if Arthmoor stops with FUD campaign (you think it's an incorrect and offending term? Wikipedia explains the meaning of "F.U.D." which is fundamentally correct in this case IMHO...) against my mod. I'm always open to accept bug reports if he has something to say about some of my fixes or he finds errors. Be sure I'll be the first to correct them, if proved, since I'm still playing Skyrim and I don't want a buggy and unstable game of course! That's the correct and polite way to proceed IMHO. I offer my hand for fixing some bugs together but I expect at least not to read again senseless accusations from him, as adult, cooperating modders should do... if he has documented bug reports/errors, he's welcome and I'm not infallible.

 

We all want the same thing after all: a better gaming experience without ugly suspension of disbelief-breaking bugs! ;)

You made the USKP_Addon as a giant FU to the USKP

 

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@Hexaae:

 

Well obviously shining the light on things was the only way you'd ever acknowledge them. You have an awful lot of "well, what's wrong with that" responses to a few very selective things.

An awful lot of what? Please, re-read it carefully... I just replied to your vague accusations quite clearly...

 

That you're not accepting that we may in fact have a solid, evidence based reason for not going along with things like the mesh stretch fix you did - though that hasn't been a huge issue unto itself.

...

You keep claiming to have had all these PM conversations. No such thing ever happened.

So you still want to talk about the hundreds mesh fixes I did and you rejected... ok...

As I've reported there, all fixes were verified. You ignored this and your assumption was that was an unreliable work. Please report me what meshes of the 196 are unreliable and dangerous hacks you have found in the archive I've posted here if you think so. I'll correct them.

Since they are actually perfectly reliable and heavily tested, I've included them already in my SMPC since version 1.16. You didn't trust me? No problem for me, I have my own mod in effect.

 

Really you don't even remember when I told you I was working on the scene fixes for the 3 heroes and you told me it was a good thing and you would have included "any better fix than the original vanilla messy" (I can't remember the exact words but that was the sense....)?

Did I dreamt of it? :)

 

You simply failed to respond to 99% of the efforts I made in private to resolve these things,....

then decided to make up a whole lot of crazy shit about myself and our team here.

Ehm, I really have no PMs from you in this forum, nor on the Nexus about this dispute.

If you really believe in what you say then I start to think something strange really happened to my mailbox or I/you accidentally deleted something! I'm serious, at this point! :-P

Never. I just reacted to your generic disregarding comments and NEVER thrown shit against USKP or the UPTeam. Read my comments on Nexus and everywhere. If I had something to say was against you alone, and your bad behavior because you started by yourself a flame/FUD campaign instead of reporting me bugs for my mod saying I was doing something the wrong way (excluding the above mentioned mailboxes issues ;)).

What happens if all modders on Nexus would start to talk bad of each other instead of simply collaborating and reporting bugs? Think about it... For sure I didn't like all that.

 

still won't admit where you're making subjective choices vs actual valid bug fixes.

Maybe you didn't notice I mentioned small changes in the public description of the mod itself. I never hid there were a few small changes for a better game experience always respecting original gameplay and never changings settings, bonuses or any other crucial things, but the large part are actually fixes as the public changelog of SMPC explains. There are assumptions and "fixes" in the USKP too that are not strictly speaking "bugs" but just "reasonable changes" BTW...

For how long you want to crucify me because SMPC it's not a strictly speaking pure mod-fix but contains also a few harmless and documented changes?

I've also changed the name into Skyrim Misc Patches Collection. It's not called Strictly-game-fixes-mod. I've chosen the word Patches on purpose and changes are documented and not maliciously hidden.

 

I stand by my analysis of the file. Check it yourself, you won't find a single make up thing in that post.

Please can you explain me why you've written here and there my mod was corrupting savegames and breaking quests, since it does not, as I've just explained? Are you surprised I didn't like this since it was not exactly "true"? Oh well, at least not since a long time and very early versions ago...

As I've explained point by point there is nothing in SMPC causing critical issues or problems with the game. Did you read also my full reply? If you found something please report and I'll correct this in case but it's a fact that installing SMPC has no risk and does not break anything in the USKP.

 

@Gruftlord:

 

I've never said we don't want his contributions, despite what he thinks and is claiming. Not everything will be accepted and I think you probably hit the nail on the head that it's ego based more than anything

My ego? I offered my help and fixes, as other users did... Something was not accepted and many other didn't got even a reply (I've given the link above). All right then, I started my own mod. This is what you label an egocentric user? I'm afraid the one who felt offended was not me...

 

Reproducibility is still 100% necessary though.

All right. So three competent users reporting a reproducible bug with repro-steps with new and clean games can be ignored since you're the only one who was not able to reproduce it? Yes, it's not 100% but you should consider other possibilities... I'm a biologist and science and experiments teaches us that sometimes wrong results may happen, but can be also caused by badly conducted experiment that lead to wrong conclusions, not wrong results = 100% wrong hypothesis.

Since 3/4 reported the issue #6660 in clean conditions, was I asking too much when I expected the bug not to be closed in a hurry be kept open since there are some evident suspects...? Probably in next days, after NightStar/Schlerocephalus recent report, will prove there was a bug indeed triggering the issue we reported that you quickly dismissed.

Sometimes you're too drastic in your decisions IMHO, as I've expressed.

 

...Hexaae is telling people.

Please can you quote where I've written USKP is an unreliable bad patch? Never did and never even thought, even if I've found and reported some errors or things that could have been better patched, with technical explanations on why always, so please, don't tell me I said "your fix sucks and I'm doing it better so fuck you". The reasons why I stopped reporting and started my own project are thoroughly explained.

 

Anyway. That aside, I've got no issue with Hexaae making reports here, never did. My main beef is the way in which he's going about telling people that SMCP is necessary because we're flakes

Glad to hear... but once again: I NEVER, EVER said USKP sucked and did things wrong! I've just applied a very few fixes (and I've always highlighted this) as replacement for those in the USKP, tested and verified by my team of testers.

The fact is we both fixed a few bug in two different ways. That's all, and always documented why and where I thought it was a better fix.

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I do think though protest too much.

 

If you are this insecure to resort to brutally attacking any criticism, isnt that meaning your a little insecure about your position?
If you truly were secure youd let the people decide the merits instead of just throwing a fit

and getting people reported and trying to get them banned for disagreeing with you is also kinda funny

 

there is a HUGE differance between Arathmoor putting actual data and valid interpretations on the site and him sayin OH ME GERD HEX IS A NOOB or something

 

ITS NOT PERSONAL!!!!

 

P.S.

until i bugged you you still had the USKP_Addon in the title after saying its a separate addon.

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You made the USKP_Addon as a giant FU to the USKP

This is wrong. I just started my own separate project (with USKP-base as a proof I didn't FU anything!) with my own fixes as there are many other already on Nexus! Since I've not published them in the USKP this has been considered offensive for their hard work? ...And I was so stupid to sill recommend everyone to use it? You really misinterpreted everything as a personal attack. Just a wrong assumption.

Instead I read bad things against my mod as (unexpected) reaction and what I call a FUD campaign started!

Maybe I've chosen a bad mod name I really never expected to be considered "offensive" in any term but with "addon" I meant I was fixing just a few bugs already patched by the USKP and then added something more, but always in conjunction with the USKP! You probably never read the mod description.

Since some users like you and another pointed me it can be misinterpreted as offensive, I've also changed the name without excuses. So what are you accusing me of please? Are you just trolling and provoking?

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An awful lot of what? Please, re-read it carefully... I just replied to your vague accusations quite clearly...

I'd hardly call a wall of text extracted directly from TES5Edit to be vague at anything. I posted the data so that there was no room to attempt to weasel out of it. Facts are facts.

 

 

You ignored this and your assumption was that was an unreliable work.

No. Please stop with this.

It was not IGNORED. It was flatly REJECTED. There's a difference. The process you used for doing this - mass hex editing a bunch of nif files - that's NEVER going to be something we'll accept no matter what. There's simply too many meshes there for us to individually validate them all. I said as much in the bug you're citing.

 

 

Really you don't even remember when I told you I was working on the scene fixes for the 3 heroes and you told me it was a good thing and you would have included "any better fix than the original vanilla messy" (I can't remember the exact words but that was the sense....)?

Did I dreamt of it? :)

Apparently you dreamed it, or thought you had submitted the post or whatever. Hell, maybe the forum did eat it. Point is, until it showed up in your file we had not been told there was anything wrong with the fix until JUST recently when bleu indicates the entire fix - all of it - should probably just be removed as it doesn't seem to be making any difference at all.

We're fine with that possibility btw. Shit happens. Trying something that tests out but ends up not holding together in the long term is perfectly fine. We can just revert the edits entirely if that's the solution. No harm, no foul.

 

 

Read my comments on Nexus and everywhere. If I had something to say was against you alone, and your bad behavior because you started by yourself a flame/FUD campaign instead of reporting me bugs for my mod saying I was doing something the wrong way (excluding the above mentioned mailboxes issues ;)).

I'd direct people to where I attempted to explain the situation in your thread, and your hostile responses to that, but you had the posts deleted. Other folks have said their posts disappeared too. Make of that what you will, but the Nexus moderator COULD verify they intervened if you really want to go down this road. I really don't, I doubt you do, cause seriously this is all just plain stupid at this point and we should get past it. I even asked people not to bother posting on your mod page because it wasn't productive.

 

 

Maybe you didn't notice I mentioned small changes in the public description of the mod itself. I never hid there were a few small changes for a better game experience always respecting original gameplay and never changing settings, bonuses or any other crucial things, but the large part are actually fixes as the public changelog of SMPC explains. There are assumptions and "fixes" in the USKP too that are not strictly speaking "bugs" but just "reasonable changes" BTW...

The point here is that your mod's description page and changelog are not our bug tracker. We will treat that information the same as information on UESP - unsubstantiated without a proper tracker report and a reproducible scenario.

 

 

For how long you want to crucify me because SMPC it's not a strictly speaking pure mod-fix but contains also a few harmless and documented changes?

For as long as you're marketing the entire thing as fixed and implying to people that even the subjective stuff is actually broken and that we ignored your reports to do something about it here - since you never bothered.

 

 

Please can you explain me why you've written here and there my mod was corrupting savegames and breaking quests, since it does not, as I've just explained? Are you surprised I didn't like this since it was not exactly "true"? Oh well, at least not since a long time and very early versions ago...

Because up until you quietly fixed the property loss problem (which I had documented previously and shown people on your mod page only to have you delete the proof) it was true that what you were doing would corrupt the quest and bake invalid data into the save. Fixing the property loss after the fact won't correct this for users who have already been bitten.

 

All right. So three competent users reporting a reproducible bug with repro-steps with new and clean games can be ignored since you're the only one who was not able to reproduce it? Yes, it's not 100% but you should consider other possibilities... I'm a biologist and science and experiments learned us that sometimes wrong results may happen, but can be also caused by badly conducted experiment that lead to wrong conclusions, not wrong results = 100% wrong hypothesis.

Then as a scientist you ought to appreciate what validation means, yes? Three people confirming something under unknown test conditions, contradicted by a 4th testing under strictly controlled conditions and NOT reproducing the reported results tends to cause problems. "Oh, it's 75% effective" isn't something a true scientist should be happy about.

As I said, if we can't reproduce it, we can't track down how to fix it.

 

 

Please can you quote where I've written USKP is an unreliable bad patch? Never did and never even thought, even if I've found and reported some errors or things that could have been better patched, with technical explanations on why always, so please, don't tell me I said "your fix sucks and I'm doing it better so fuck you". The reasons why I stopped reporting and started my own project are thoroughly explained.

You didn't use those exact words, but when you go around telling people that the Midden fix is complete garbage and only your version is the one true way to solve it, that comes pretty close to the whole thing being a big FU to our team.

BTW, just as a point - that Farm doorway thing wasn't just those few I specified. There were dozens of them, all of which was something Kivan had fixed before we took over the project. You having them in there doesn't break anything, it's just unnecessarily redundant and would go a good way toward reducing the file size and editing footprint of your mod.

I'm sorry that this had to be brought out in such a public way to even get this discussion rolling. I'm sorry it couldn't have been done where you say you wanted it, since said efforts were being deleted. That said, I'd like to think we can bury this hatchet and move past this now that it's all out in the open. I may be a bit rash, sometimes short tempered, and whatever else, but at the end of the day I'm human and have human reactions to things. I do not take kindly to being dragged through the mud over things I know are not as described.

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I'd hardly call a wall of text extracted directly from TES5Edit to be vague at anything. I posted the data so that there was no room to attempt to weasel out of it. Facts are facts.

No, I meant your assumptions and comment were vague, not T5E. And I've explained one by one what you couldn't understand in my mod.

 

 

No. Please stop with this.

It was not IGNORED. It was flatly REJECTED. There's a difference. The process you used for doing this - mass hex editing a bunch of nif files - that's NEVER going to be something we'll accept no matter what. There's simply too many meshes there for us to individually validate them all. I said as much in the bug you're citing.

You started again this thread.... Don't tell me to stop on this.

You probably have 0 experience in this field and for this reason you didn't trust me when I told you the files where ALREADY VERIFIED later and was not a sort of blind unsafe and automated work as you wrongly assumed because of your prejudices... You can still reject whatever you want, I didn't start crying for this or took this as a personal attack as you describe it: I've simply included them in my mod, no problem for me.

Everybody can read the issue here as there is nothing to hide http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/12969-stretched-blurry-textures-for-green-cave-walls-and-others/

You're inventing dramas everywhere.... I've stopped reporting bugs etc. because of a sum of things and scarce communication, not just because 1-2 things were rejected and I didn't do anything hostile creating a new mod-fix (and small changes, yes...) on Nexus with your excellent USKP as base, because besides a very few things (IMHO), I still have it in great consideration.

 

Apparently you dreamed it, or thought you had submitted the post or whatever. Hell, maybe the forum did eat it. Point is, until it showed up in your file we had not been told there was anything wrong with the fix until JUST recently when bleu indicates the entire fix - all of it - should probably just be removed as it doesn't seem to be making any difference at all.

This is funny... What can say at this point, maybe you're just forgetful because I've also sent the link to the archive upped on ZippyShare...

The fact here you're the admin of this site also raises some doubts... I'll do local backups in the future! ;)

 

I'd direct people to where I attempted to explain the situation in your thread, and your hostile responses to that, but you had the posts deleted. Other folks have said their posts disappeared too. Make of that what you will, but the Nexus moderator COULD verify they intervened if you really want to go down this road. I really don't, I doubt you do, cause seriously this is all just plain stupid at this point and we should get past it. I even asked people not to bother posting on your mod page because it wasn't productive.

"Hostile response" AFTER your FUD campaign? LOL...

For sure I stopped that and requested moderation on comments because you started to write invented things... I didn't delete anything as I have no power to do this, I've just asked the moderation for something like 2 messages, because the comments turned from a report & discussion page to a stupid flame war (you started). They then evaluated and applied what they thought it was right.

 

 

For as long as you're marketing the entire thing as fixed and implying to people that even the subjective stuff is actually broken and that we ignored your reports to do something about it here - since you never bothered.

I've given the link for all discussions in my long reply. Everybody can judge by themselves about those few bugs I re-patched and said were better then the USKP solution, they don't need your "opinion" about facts.

I still don't have a single bug-report or problem sent from my mod users about these fixes I (re)implemented. Yes, not even 1/30000.

 

 

Because up until you quietly fixed the property loss problem (which I had documented previously and shown people on your mod page only to have you delete the proof) it was true that what you were doing would corrupt the quest and bake invalid data into the save. Fixing the property loss after the fact won't correct this for users who have already been bitten.

As I've explained point by point there is nothing in SMPC causing critical issues or problems with the game. Did you read also my full reply? If you found something please report and I'll correct this in case but it's a fact that installing SMPC has no risk and does not break anything in the USKP.

If the CollegeFaction flag was removed by mistake as you say it was by accident in some mid-early version, there is nothing diabolic behind this. I can still remember early USKP versions where entire dialogues were inaccessible and other errors that affected quest evolution, and I never "marketed" them as a proof of bad work to defame anyone...

Oh! Thank you for finally admitting this. Other users though continuously reported me these kind of inaccurate and denigrating things you said:

It looks like Arthmoor has claimed the following about this mod:

"full of subjective game design changes"

"poorly implemented replacements for several fixes"

"generate conflicts in the game and can even lead to save game corruption"

"it will be damaging to your game"

"script conflicts which cause properties to become undone and inflict irreversible damage to the main quest"

Care to comment on all that, or is it unsubstantiated? I've looked into the matter, and I see no proof of his claims. That is not to say that there is no proof. I just don't see it.

That's why after the 10th report I defended our work. Yes, I was also aggressive sometimes using your same words like "poorly implemented" etc. as a reaction, not all of a sudden and never as first.

 

Then as a scientist you ought to appreciate what validation means, yes? Three people confirming something under unknown test conditions, contradicted by a 4th testing under strictly controlled conditions and NOT reproducing the reported results tends to cause problems. "Oh, it's 75% effective" isn't something a true scientist should be happy about.

As I said, if we can't reproduce it, we can't track down how to fix it.

No no, as I said and everybody can judge by themselves, without your personal opinion here http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?app=trac&module=issues&section=issues&do=view&id=6660 , the tests conditions where clearly highlighted and explained, but you probably ignored that part thinking you're the only one able to start and verify things. There's a big difference.

FYI, the 75% effective is a interesting result that needs more testings, exactly what I was asking for in that thread :) Didn't expect it was automatically flagged as Confirmed, but even less to be quickly dismissed as Unreproducible after conflicting results with 3/4 users you didn't comment. What are bug-reports for if you don't evaluate them when the majority of users reported a supposed issue? This should rise at least some doubts, not worthy a quick dismissal!

 

I'm sorry that this had to be brought out in such a public way to even get this discussion rolling. I'm sorry it couldn't have been done where you say you wanted it, since said efforts were being deleted. That said, I'd like to think we can bury this hatchet and move past this now that it's all out in the open. I may be a bit rash, sometimes short tempered, and whatever else, but at the end of the day I'm human and have human reactions to things. I do not take kindly to being dragged through the mud over things I know are not as described.

Yes but, I didn't "brought this to public" anything.... Private or public reports on Nexus for me would have been enough to correct the supposed bugs you found. As you say we are humans so you couldn't expect from me a relaxed reaction to the attacks you started. I didn't start, nor even ever wanted to, anything. It's clear you did it all by yourself starting in the wrong direction with a sort of public defamation.

However...

...No problem for me to bury the hatchet I wouldn't even ever take if it was for me...

You'll stop saying the SMPC is garbage with poorly implemented fixes and prone to game corruptions, and I'll, ehm... stop saying what I never said ;) (please quote me where I did it anywhere...): that USKP is unreliable (?), faulty fix collection, or things like that.

This is exactly what we both wanted.

It's ok for me, so let's bury this hatchet once and for all.

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I am very sad in reading this thread. I enjoyed modding Skyrim these days of summer holidays and I discovered this discussion after updating "Hearthfire Unofficial Patch" to 1.1.2 because my language (italian) was disappeared.

I don't know who is right and who was wrong, but see two people who shares the same passion for such a beautiful game fight for a so futile reason really makes me sad.

Who is really damaged in the end is the community. I decided to uninstall all the unofficial patches, even basic ones.

I was following the S.T.E.P. guide project but now I decided that I will play using just a few essential mod (like SkyUI, Convenient Horses, Enhanced Blood and some minor fixes).
The unofficial patches itself introduced a bug fixed in 1.1.2 only ("An errant enable parent setting added to fix the navmesh cutters in Breezehome resulted in the doorway to the child's bedroom having no valid navmesh path. (Bug #12692, Bug #13051) [NR]") but 1.1.2 do not have italian language anymore. We are all humans, we all make mistakes ... why do not sit around a table and talk about it peacefully rather than destroy everything?
Excuse me for bad english.

Goodbye.
 

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usually the transalted unofficial patches have been distributed separatelly. Hexaae still does the italien translations.

 

it was an experiemnt for a very short period of time, to see how well it would turn out to distribute the patches as localized files that work for everyone.

this didn't turn out well.

some language teams simply didn't get in contact with the USKP team in time. so this was scapped.

 

after reading this thread, it may surprise you, that this wasn't the case with the italian version, and in fact, despite their differences, Arthmoor and Hexaae are still both of the oppinion, that the USKP work is mandatory for the community.

Hexaae is therefor still the head of the italian translation team for USKP, and you can get the translated patches from him

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/users/1008258/?tb=mods&pUp=1

 

you should give him a few days to update the Hearthfire patch though. Dawnguard, Dragonborn and Skyrim versions are all available in Italian however.

 

have fun gaming.

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I decided to uninstall all the unofficial patches, even basic ones.

That seems like a rash decision based on a flawed understanding of the reason this thread had to be posted to start with.

 

The unofficial patches itself introduced a bug fixed in 1.1.2 only ("An errant enable parent setting added to fix the navmesh cutters in Breezehome resulted in the doorway to the child's bedroom having no valid navmesh path. (Bug #12692, Bug #13051) [NR]")

Indeed, it happens. Likely it was due to a misreading of how the enable flags were set up. Unlike Bethesda, at least we fixed it once it came to light :)

 

but 1.1.2 do not have italian language anymore.

Hexaae was providing the Italian translations when we shipped as multilingual files. He wasn't the reason we stopped doing this. It was people who said they'd be responsible for other languages who later stopped responding when we informed them it was time for updates. We can't really managed a system like that when people don't participate.

Plus, there were other disadvantages. Especially now that the game has a lot more official translations done. Any language we didn't have files for meant the game would crash on load. If we hadn't lost our translators, we'd have been screwed by the other stuff anyway.

 

We are all humans, we all make mistakes ... why do not sit around a table and talk about it peacefully rather than destroy everything?

Excuse me for bad english.

Goodbye.

Well, because frankly, we tried that approach and it didn't work. Sometimes being all peaceful and nice gets you slapped in the face and your attempts to communicate rebuffed.

This thread at least set things back toward getting onto the right track again. It's not how I'd have preferred it happen, but it wasn't my actions that necessitated it either.

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I am very sad in reading this thread. I enjoyed modding Skyrim these days of summer holidays and I discovered this discussion after updating "Hearthfire Unofficial Patch" to 1.1.2 because my language (italian) was disappeared.

What Arthmoor said about the translators and I agree, because a project like USKP cannot work when some people drag the legs on the ground so to speak while other people work their butts off to make everyone happy.

 

So if you still miss the Italian translation then make an unofficial language patch for your self and send it over to Arthmoor for approval since he are the one who is in charge for the USKP project.

 

I don't know who is right and who was wrong, but see two people who shares the same passion for such a beautiful game fight for a so futile reason really makes me sad.

Who is really damaged in the end is the community. I decided to uninstall all the unofficial patches, even basic ones.

It doesn't matter who is right or wrong here.  Sorry to hear that if such a discussion makes you sad. :)

 

No the community will not suffer from this dispute, but the communtity will suffer if any disputes like this one aren't discussed with open mind.

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I'll do also Harthfire if needed... (you can see the other translations, including fixed voices, here for example: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/38524 BTW, Italian Dawnguard had a pair of strings as hexadecimal chars (!???), instead of text, corrected with an additional micro-patch on that page)...

Thanks, that would be appreciated. I wish the multilingual file thing had worked out, but with all the new languages the game now supports that just wasn't very practical anymore.

 

Maybe if Bethesda had made it easier to support things like this it wouldn't have been an issue. Like defaulting to English in case the supported language was missing.

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Thanks to all for the answers.

Before your posts it was not clear to me that the reason for missing support of multilanguage in UHFP was independent from the discussion between Arthmoor and Hexaae.
However what happened has opened my eyes and my emotional reaction was tied to this reason. To better explain what I mean I need to quote the words taken from UHFP SkyrimNexus page.

 

 

3. There is no such thing as a clean save. It does not matter who tells you there is, it doesn't exist in Skyrim. You cannot remove any mod, not even the patch, without there being some data that's been permanently changed. Doing this repeatedly WILL damage your save and WILL eventually lead to it becoming corrupt and unusable. Bethesda's own developers have confirmed the only way to properly remove a mod is to load a save made BEFORE that mod was introduced into the game. If you started a new game with 10 mods installed, you're going to be stuck with those 10 forever.

This is not something the patch broke. It's just the way Skyrim works. The old days of installing and removing mods at will and without consequences that people are used to from Fallout and Oblivion are gone.

 

 

I have passed last week reading STEP guide, downloading mod, tuning the game...and I am only at the beginning. I have some stutter in the main cities and I need to optimize textures with DDSopt but I have not yet read the specific guide.
In real life I am a computer programmer and even If when I started modding I enjoyed myself now I am very tired. I wanna play Skyrim now.

I would like my gaming experience was the best possible. I don't want risk that for a bug I cannot use my savegame anymore.
If during my gameplay I find a bug I can reaload some old save add USKP and continue playing loosing only one day of playthrough but if I discover a serious bug caused by a mod what can I do? I will waste all my savegames. In my humble opinion the best choice is use the lesser number of mod because adding a mod is always possible, removing it is not.

Maybe that I will use again the Unofficial patches in the future. If I find the time and the desire I might try to translate myself UHFP but now I think that not using all Unofficial patch pack is the best choice.
For example: USKP Addon. I should use it or not? Who has the answer? Better choice for me now is disabling all the Unofficial patches.

Thanks to all.

 

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well, adding the USKP can be done at any time, yes. but this comes with a very big BUT.

some changes are not retroactive. meaning: you didn't install the USKP at game start, and then you will have no option to fix the bug. it will be in your game, no matter what.

only starting a new game with the USKP installed will solve the bug.

take a look at the patchlogs. everything with a [NR] at the end is "not retroactive". there is no "clean save" simply refers to the fact, that some things, once in game, can never be removed from that line of save files. this is true even for official assets.

sometime you do want to have them removed however. removed not meaning literally in this case, but more in "replaced by the USKP". this does for some critical issues only work on a new character.

keep that in mind

 

"USKP addon" as it used to be called is a personal project of Hexaae. it changes a few things Hexaae felt should be changed, but aren't by the USKP. it is not advised by the Author to use it without the USKP, and it is not advised by Arthmoor to use the formerly called USKP-Addon at all. this Skyrim misc patches collection is not part of the unofficial patches project, and there is no reason to disable the USKPs over differences between Arthmoor and Hexaae about SMPC.

 

so in short: should you use SMPC? there are different oppinions on that, present in this thread.

should you use USKP? nobody in this thread has a different oppinion than YES!

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