Screwball Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 There are several issues there - I will have to replay the entire quest from an earlier save in order to answer most of your questions. Except for:- I was Level 65 at the time I played though that quest. Revisiting the location shows the "downstairs" rack empty, however, I cannot recall whether I took anything from the rack as the Plaque over the bed (just to the right of the one in question) still has a Bow on it, so I may have missed those racks entirely. The upstairs one still has the un-takeable sword on it (Steel). The Papyrus error still occurs each time I enter the location. I'll play it through again later, hopefully I'll be able to answer some of those points more accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Ok, so played it though again (Level 65). The "downstairs" Rack (the one causing the Papyrus error) is empty - there's nothing on it (visibly). The "upstairs" Plaque. Initially it has a Steel Sword on it. It is "takeable" and it is placed in your inventory. I checked carefully and had 1 Steel Sword in my inventory prior to taking this one, thereafter I had 2. A Steel Sword is, however, still on the plaque and is not takeable. Both of the above are reproducible, as is the Papyrus error immediately after entering the keep. I have uploaded a suitable savegame made just outside Northwatch Keep here. Tip - use the Bow (shortcut "3") UpdateUSKP (2.0.3)HearthfiresUHFP (2.0.2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Both of the above are reproducible, as is the Papyrus error immediately after entering the keep. I have uploaded a suitable savegame made just outside Northwatch Keep here. Tip - use the Bow (shortcut "3") Got it, checking. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Ha! There are 2 identical racks in the same place, with 2 swords. There are no Enable parents. Impossible to see in the CK. You took the 1st sword, then the activator for that plaque kicks in and prevents you from touching the 2nd sword (activators are much thicker than swords). 000C1A8A sword 000C1A88 activator 000C1A89 plaque/trigger 000C1A8F sword 000C1A90 activator 000C1A91 plaque/trigger My guess is the developer accidentally hit control-D twice, then converted to the Mace on the left. I think the only thing that we can do is disable one of the duplicate sets. As to 0009E444, confirmed that the dummy isn't converting to a LItemThalmorWeapon1H -- needs more eyes. Should it be a DummyWeapon1H, not DummySword? Would match LItemThalmorWeapon1H which has maces and axes. In fact, there are other uses around NorthwatchKeep01 with non-dummy uses of LItemThalmorWeapon1H, I didn't know that was allowed: 0009E3E0F, 0009E3E7, 0009E3EA, 0009E3EF In fact, NorthwatchKeep and its exterior are the only places using LItemThalmorWeapon1H -- all the other uses are NPCs. Is it missing flag Calculating all levels <= PC's level? But then preview gives steel and eleven, I'd think this should only be glass at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Confirmed DummySword 0009E3D0 isn't converting to a LItemThalmorWeapon1H either. But not giving a rack error? And the non-dummy uses aren't converting properly either, although they are clearly reorienting as other types of weapons, visually they look like this: http://www.afkmods.com/uploads/gallery/album_50/tn_gallery_1495_50_140626.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Slightly OT but... 0009E3EF - If you look at that, and the other 3 items on the rack, the "bounding box" shown in the CK is way too wide for the object, the one for the axe (0009E3E7) is (appears to be) the right size but is offset from the object. The other 2 items which are the same (0009E3A0 & 0009E3EA) look perfect (but clearly aren't from your thumbnail). Are we looking at NIF errors here? And could those errors be impacting on the rack/plaque placements and activations in some (probably horrible) way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Why the heck does a Steel Sword 00013989 have a huge bounding box, instead of the cubical one like a Steel Mace? That needs to be fixed. Slightly OT but... 0009E3EF - If you look at that, and the other 3 items on the rack, the "bounding box" shown in the CK is way too wide for the object, the one for the axe (0009E3E7) is (appears to be) the right size but is offset from the object. The other 2 items which are the same (0009E3A0 & 0009E3EA) look perfect (but clearly aren't from your thumbnail). Are we looking at NIF errors here? And could those errors be impacting on the rack/plaque placements and activations in some (probably horrible) way? All the Steel and SkyForge Steel swords have a huge bounding box side in 1 direction. Compared to other swords, it looks like the X1 should be 8, not 48. The axes are a little odd, too. I don't know where these come from. Are they in the nif and imported into the base record? Should they be modified in TES5Edit? (I don't see any way to fix them in the CK.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I would guess from the .nif. The CK isn't really for creating objects, only locations using the available nifs so it's not too surprising if there's no way to modify them. NifScope, I assume, would be the tool for doing that (if they need changing, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 AFAICT, none of the Dummy 1H objects in Northwatch Keep are spawning properly. But Northwatch Keep itself is a No Respawn location. Could that be the problem? However, the Dummy Sword (should be 1H) on the table in NorthwatchExterior04 does spawn. It is marked NO respawn. Then we have the problem of non-Dummy objects being Leveled Items. I've never seen that anywhere else.The LItemThalmorWeapon1H is setup to be a "best" level list, but unlike other Best lists is missing that in its name.Other than NPCs, only Northwatch uses LItemThalmorWeapon1H for leveled dummy and non-dummy items. This seems to be a mistake.I propose finding and changing all the leveled 1H items in Northwatch to non-leveled non-dummy items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I've just discovered that USKP removed the other Dummy Sword (1H) 0009E3D0 from its activator 0009E3D2. Probably the same reason as this recent report. Completely undocumented. But it was the wrong solution. Better to get the dummies to spawn or change them to non-dynamic. So that record has to be removed from USKP. I've also discovered that the Interior is reset by "Missing in Action" (MS09) QF_MS09_0001CF26 Fragment_2 -- so the dummy books and daggers and potions (which do spawn successfully) are at the level of the player at that stage 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 All the Steel and SkyForge Steel swords have a huge bounding box side in 1 direction. Compared to other swords, it looks like the X1 should be 8, not 48. The axes are a little odd, too. I don't know where these come from. Are they in the nif and imported into the base record? Should they be modified in TES5Edit? (I don't see any way to fix them in the CK.) Bounds information is usually auto-generated the first time an item is placed into the world. The dumb thing is that it doesn't always register this on the base object records. Books are one of the objects most often affected by this. You can see the results in the "size" field on an object. Editing the dimensions on the object bounds can only be done in TES5Edit, but I'm not sure anyone actually knows what each individual field does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Editing the dimensions on the object bounds can only be done in TES5Edit, but I'm not sure anyone actually knows what each individual field does.OK, I'll play with it. Just means switching back and forth between editors. You have any opinions against turning the non-spawning dummy (and non-dummy) LItemThalmorWeapon1H things into non-leveled things? Or an idea why all the other dummy items there spawn, but the LItemThalmorWeapon1H things don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I haven't looked into it yet, but I don't think it's appropriate to change those items since the items themselves are not bugs (unless they're generating non-Thalmor equipment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I haven't looked into it yet, but I don't think it's appropriate to change those items since the items themselves are not bugs (unless they're generating non-Thalmor equipment).They aren't generating ANY equipment. So the racks complain they cannot be racked (no weapon keywords). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightStar Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Some weapon rack errors were reported here and I'm quoting them below for easier reading. The same error block repeated three times. ...and below is about the weapon racks with portions of the Papyrus log file. This is the first part. [03/06/2014 - 11:09:02PM] [WeaponRackTriggerSCRIPT < (000B16A8)>]OnCellAttach() ERROR: missing WRackActivator; 'ActivatorBusy' state. [03/06/2014 - 11:09:02PM] [WeaponRackTriggerSCRIPT < (0009348B)>]OnCellAttach() ERROR: missing WRackActivator; 'ActivatorBusy' state. [03/06/2014 - 11:09:02PM] [WeaponRackTriggerSCRIPT < (000B16A4)>]OnCellAttach() ERROR: missing WRackActivator; 'ActivatorBusy' state. [03/06/2014 - 11:09:02PM] [WeaponRackTriggerSCRIPT < (00093627)>]OnCellAttach() ERROR: missing WRackActivator; 'ActivatorBusy' state. [03/06/2014 - 11:09:02PM] [WeaponRackTriggerSCRIPT < (00035A4F)>]OnCellAttach() ERROR: missing WRackActivator; 'ActivatorBusy' state. [03/06/2014 - 11:09:02PM] [WeaponRackTriggerSCRIPT < (00035A4E)>]OnCellAttach() ERROR: missing WRackActivator; 'ActivatorBusy' state. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Some weapon rack errors were reported here and I'm quoting them below for easier reading. The same error block repeated three times.Helgen Keep. We've not fixed the missing activators there until they can be coordinated with Helgen Reborn, because once they are fixed they turn from temporary to persistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightStar Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Ah, okay. I didn't realize that they needed coordinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Helgen Keep. We've not fixed the missing activators there until they can be coordinated with Helgen Reborn, because once they are fixed they turn from temporary to persistent. Unless they become persistent in such a way that they can't be moved, there's no reason to wait for him to do it first or something. Setting a linked ref won't cause it to become unmovable and this is a vanilla bug that needs to be fixed regardless. Not hot-fixed obviously, but still fixed on the next update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Unless they become persistent in such a way that they can't be moved, there's no reason to wait for him to do it first or something. Setting a linked ref won't cause it to become unmovable and this is a vanilla bug that needs to be fixed regardless. Not hot-fixed obviously, but still fixed on the next update. Oh, I thought that meant they could not be moved. And he definitely moves things around. I'll post a proposed fix later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Nope. The kind of persistence that locks things in place most of the time is when it becomes the property in a script somewhere. Then it's permanently baked to the position it's in when the game starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I haven't looked into it yet, but I don't think it's appropriate to change those items since the items themselves are not bugs (unless they're generating non-Thalmor equipment).Have you looked at them yet? Two LItemThalmorWeapon1H DummySword items (0009E444, 0009E3D0) should be DummyWeapon1H, and remain invisible, and don't mount on their racks -- as if they aren't being leveled. The 4 LItemThalmorWeapon1H non-dummy items (0009E3E0F, 0009E3E7, 0009E3EA, 0009E3EF) re-orient themselves on the racks as whatever the leveled list makes them, but their visuals don't change, so they look crazy as I showed in a picture earlier. I've also found a DummyDagger 0009E375 that should be LItemThalmorDagger, but it shows up just fine, as does the other LItemThalmorDagger. The LItemThalmorWeapon1H are the only problems, as it appears it was intended for NPCs, not leveled items (and should be named LItemThalmorWeapon1HBest to be consistent with other LItems). I've got a file ready here, just waiting for you to review those items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I have not - the UDBP is getting its final tweaks before going live and since our versions are currently out of sync, we'll be hitting Dawnguard up again next. The main USKP isn't going to get updated again until everything has caught up to 2.0.3. So it's probably best to pop open a tracker issue so this won't get forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 So it's probably best to pop open a tracker issue so this won't get forgotten. http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/files/file/1128-northwatch-racks-and-weapons-fix/ http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/15047-northwatch-racks-and-weapons/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Bounds information is usually auto-generated the first time an item is placed into the world. The dumb thing is that it doesn't always register this on the base object records. Books are one of the objects most often affected by this. You can see the results in the "size" field on an object. Editing the dimensions on the object bounds can only be done in TES5Edit, but I'm not sure anyone actually knows what each individual field does. Tried editing the SteelSword OBND X1 from -48 to proper -8 (matching the bounds on many other swords). CK kept changing it back to -48 in my patch file! So this must be picked up from a .nif or something somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayDreamer Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Not hot-fixed obviously, but still fixed on the next update. http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/15072-helgen-weapon-racks/ http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/files/file/1130-helgen-weapon-racks/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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