[RELz] Open Cities Skyrim

[Hana]

Ok, I may be late to the OCS party, but I'm seeing these errors in log spam and wondered what it was;

[07/30/2013 - 06:27:52PM] Cannot open store for class "SKI_PlayerLoadGameAlias", missing file?
[07/30/2013 - 06:27:52PM] Cannot open store for class "SKI_ConfigBase", missing file?
[07/30/2013 - 06:27:52PM] Error: Unable to link "SKI_ConfigBase" - the parent of "ARTH_OCS_ConfigMenu".
[07/30/2013 - 06:27:52PM] error: Failed to find variable ::ModName_var used in ARTH_OCS_ConfigMenu.OnConfigInit()
[07/30/2013 - 06:27:52PM] error: Failed to find variable ::Pages_var used in ARTH_OCS_ConfigMenu.OnConfigInit()
[07/30/2013 - 06:27:52PM] error: Failed to find variable ::Pages_var used in ARTH_OCS_ConfigMenu.OnConfigInit()
[07/30/2013 - 06:27:52PM] error: Unable to bind script ARTH_OCS_ConfigMenu to ARTHOCSOptionalsQuest (1B051BC2) because their base types do not match
[07/30/2013 - 06:27:53PM] error: Unable to bind script DLC2WaterScript to  (0201AAD8) because their base types do not match
[07/30/2013 - 06:27:59PM] error: Unable to bind script SKI_PlayerLoadGameAlias to alias PlayerAlias on quest ARTHOCSOptionalsQuest (1B051BC2) because their base types do not match

[Arthmoor]

[07/30/2013 - 06:27:53PM] error: Unable to bind script DLC2WaterScript to  (0201AAD8) because their base types do not match

A Dragonborn script error we attempted to resolve but were unable to, reasons unknown.

 

The rest are because you're not running SkyUI and so the MCM menu scripts are not present. It shouldn't have any affect on anything - just ignore it.

[Hana]

Kinda figured that. Is there really no way to suppress it?

[Arthmoor]

Nope. Papyrus doesn't work like that.

[Arthmoor]

By now I'm sure everyone is familiar with the lip sync bug from Patch 1.9. It's a hassle. Nobody likes it. It doesn't appear we're going to get a fix for it. It's not the only problem that 1.9 brought to the table though. People talk about the 3.1GB memory barrier as though it has always existed, but I can guarantee you this is not the case, having seen my own RAM go as high as 3.8GB before 1.9 came along. That is not what this post is about though.

Nope, this post is about another problem that's not so well known, unless you're one of the many unfortunate souls to have run into increasingly more serious issues while playing with Open Cities Skyrim. See, somewhere not too long after 1.9 came out, I began noticing increasingly long load times. I thought nothing of it because I was also adding more mods along the way even though they were nothing big. I even figured it might be because my saves were getting steadily larger. So I began paring things down, in a test install of course. Nothing seemed to help.

I know I've mentioned this before, but it feels a bit more final now that I've been forced to remove my own mod from my game. At this point, there's nothing that can be done to fix the problem. Whatever it is, it's deeply embedded into the engine itself. Maybe it just doesn't like having stuff moved from worldspace to worldspace. Maybe it really doesn't like having all this stuff in the open world now. I don't know. All I know is I can't fix it, so I give up. I surrender.

Since the mod still works for some people, I'm going to leave it up, but I'm not going to do any further work on it except to fix a bug if someone finds one. I'm not going to do any more compatibility patches for it either, as for me there's really no point now.

Maybe some day we'll get open cities without someone having to bust their humps getting everything just right only to have it clobbered by a patch after it's done. They'll, you know, just be there like they were in Morrowind.

[Sclerocephalus]

What ?  You SURRENDER ?? Are you serious ???

 

This news is extremely demotivating for anyone of us lower vertebrates who are struggling to solve problems with our own insignificant mods. What perspective remains if you give up on Skyrim ? You, the destroyer of bugs <cough>

 

It's perfectly fine to suspend any further development until the problem gets solved eventually, whatever time this may take. Don't make this a final decision though. Leave us the illusion at least that you're still trying to improve it.

[Arthmoor]

Yep, I'm serious. Surrender as in I've had enough of trying to fight a system that is clearly rigged against this mod working now. There really isn't anything more I can do. Skyrim Performance Monitor says OCS isn't being a resource hog, so there's absolutely no reason for it causing ILS's and/or CTDs now that didn't exist prior to 1.9. Patch 1.9 broke it, it's just taken me this long fighting with it to finally come to that realization.

 

I think leaving the illusion that I'm trying to do something about it is deceptive. Cause I'm 100% convince there's nothing I can do about it unless Bethesda fixes what they screwed up in 1.9. Unless someone makes some kind of crazy breakthrough with solving ILS problems the show's over here except for bug fixes. It's gotten bad enough that trying to leave it in my game is causing major disruption to my ability to play and I won't put up with that any longer.

[Leonardo]

That comes as a surprise for me, but I guess that you already suspected something weird was going on when you suddenly requested that OCS 1.0 needs be to tested by others than yourself.

 

Anyway, thanks for making all cites to be open instead of being closed cities like they were in vanilla Oblivion.

 

 

Perhaps it's a dumb question...  What's ILS and what stands ILS for?

[Arthmoor]

ILS = Infinite Loading Screen. Apparently it's a common enough problem now in Skyrim that people have begun abbreviating it.

[Leonardo]

TBH I haven't notice ILS in my game and perhaps I use some mods that doesn't trigger the ILS glitch or my loadorder is too small in comparison to other players.

[KNakamura]

I've noticed ILS becoming a problem on my skyrim installation. As long as I don't use fullscreen I can bypass it, but.

[Leonardo]

How come you can bypass it by not using full screen otherwise you have an ILS issue sounds strange to me?   It's odd because I use full screen all time myself without any indication about having an ILS problem growing in the background.

[KNakamura]

Because if I use fullscreen it WILL hang. If I use windowed, I just have to go find something to do for 2 minutes.

[Leonardo]

Hmm this is odd.  What mods are you using?

[KNakamura]

Hm. Going through my mods, two are rather dirty, both edit the map. (add a floating island, modify the Dawnstar city.)

[KNakamura]

Here is the actual mod list.

 

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Falskaar.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm
ETaC - RESOURCES.esm
GeneralStores.esm
SPIKE.esm
TERAArmors.esm
WinterholdDestruction.esm
Solstheim Climate Overhaul.esm
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Brawl Bugs CE.esp
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Dawnguard.esp
Morning Fogs.esp
Supreme Fog.esp
Supreme Storms.esp
KCEUnarmedBladeSound.esp
Vidani's Bag of Holding.esp
AK- Boethiah Alternate.esp
AK- Namira for Good Guys.esp
Ars Metallica.esp
Ars Metallica - Dawnguard.esp
Ars Metallica - Hearthfire.esp
Ars Metallica - Dragonborn.esp
BLESSINGS - Altar Descriptions.esp
BorderSense.esp
CraftableCloudStorage(GS).esp
Disease Descriptions.esp
DD_Dawnguard Additions.esp
DD_Dragonborn Additions.esp
ModernDayCalendarNames.esp
Point The Way.esp
RealShelter.esp
ShootingStars.esp
Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp
NoxUE2.00.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
WetandCold.esp
WetandCold - Ashes.esp
SkyUI.esp
LessIntrusiveHUD.esp
SaveHotKeyMCM.esp
AlynShirArmor.esp
KCEAssaultRifles.esp
Neo's Oriental Dress.esp
Oriental Weapon&Armor.esp
Sovngarde Steel Armor and Weapons.esp
TERAArmors.esp
Smithing Perks Overhaul_Remade.esp
Smithing Perks Overhaul_Dawnguard.esp
Smithing Perks Overhaul_Dragonborn.esp
DA_Skyship.esp
DA_Skyship_Dragonborn.esp
Destroy the Thieves Guild.esp
HouseOfHorrorsAlternateEnding.esp
MissingApprentices.esp
ResearchThief.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
Wallofhonor.esp
Western Watchtower Rebuilt.esp
Wyrmstooth.esp
Acquisitive Soul Gems.esp
AchieveThat.esp
Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp
BarenziahQuestMarkers_Droppable.esp
BetterQuestObjectives.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-Dawnguard.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-PaarDilemmaPatch.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-DBForevertoMisc.esp
Civil War Repairs.esp
ESFCompanions.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-ESFCompanionsPatch.esp
FalskaarDawnguard.esp
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
IslandFastTravel.esp
Legendary Artifacts.esp
TwoRings.esp
ETaC - Villages Complete.esp
ExpandedWinterholdRuins.esp
Helgen Reborn.esp
RRRE-Lite.esp
RRRL-ETaC-Villages-Complete-Patch.esp
Random Vampire Attacks in Towns Disabled.esp
NoNakedComments.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-AlternateStartPatch.esp
Atlas Map Markers.esp
Atlas Blackreach.esp
Atlas Dawnguard.esp
Atlas Hearthfire.esp
Atlas Dragonborn.esp
crimsonquestmarkers.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Drijvend.esp
DSHg - Circlets.esp
DSHg - DragonPriest Masks.esp
DSHg - Hats.esp
DSHg - Helmets.esp
DSHg - Hoods.esp
DSHg - UpdateDB.esp
DSHg - UpdateDG.esp
EssentialLydia.esp
FalskaarClouds.esp
JiDawnstar.esp
NewmillerLO1.esp
Ring Of Shadows 1_2.esp
Dawnguard(GS).esp
 

[Wormheart]

I'm sure that you have, but I figured I'd ask anyway (with the unofficial patch news reminding me). Have you tried converting OCS to an ESM?

I had what seemed to be a rock solid game with OCS installed, well for about 20h that is. Until every freaking Dawnguard radiant quest kept sending me to Solstheim. Then it happened, my first ILS. I was unable to return to Skyrim and I could not work around it. I tried everything I was willing to do without serious repercussions. I tried undoing ini tweaks*, switching to the Low preset, removing the HRDLC (moved the bsa's out), fullscreen, windowed (running an ATI card so fake-fullscreen windowed mode is my default, as the stuttering is STILL not fixed when running true fullscreen), lowering the resolution to 800x600, and nothing worked. I don't use an ENB (or similar) so nothing to change there.

Finally I made a mod that turned the markers around (the ones the player might have used as a spawn point) to face the farms, and it worked, I was able to return to Windhelm. However, I modified all of the wrong markers. I had spawned in still looking at the city (turns out OCS has a custom marker). Then the next set of Dawnguard radiant quests sent me to Solstheim AGAIN! only this time I could not return at all, so adding in my changes was a one time only freak change that magically allowed me to return (I really hate this game). I got fed up, used the console to player.moveto a marker in the Palace of the Kings in Windhelm (the housecarl marker specifically). Exited just fine, headed up towards Kynesgrove only to CTD... tried again, CTD. Gave up and now I'm only running the unofficial patches on yet another new game start. This time I've joined the vampires, and my first radiant quest is in... you guessed it! Raven Rock.

Anyway, I really enjoyed the time I had with the mod. I didn't notice any performance drop in the cities or directly outside them, however I did get some stutter if I was out near the Watchtower looking at Whiterun. I really doubt Bethesda is going to fix anything that will allow this to work again, but I still hold hope that there is something we might be overlooking.

*my ini tweaks are very conservative, it mostly just tones the Ultra preset down and disabling things like the tutorial messages, the intro video, the compass, etc. No z-fighting stuff no uber distance tweaks, that was all default Ultra.

[Leonardo]

Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp

Weapons & Armor Fixes_Dawnguard.esp

Are these esp's the latest?  If not then check them with this mod list for mods made obsolete by USKP and if any of them is found in the mod list then remove them, because they'll most likely block the bug fixes by the USKP.

 

I'm sure that you have, but I figured I'd ask anyway (with the unofficial patch news reminding me). Have you tried converting OCS to an ESM?

You can't convert an esp to an esm as you could in Wrye Bash for Oblivion and you must use TES5Edit to do such a thing according to this post.

[VaultDuke]

esmifying would also currently move the mod above the unofficial patches. not a good solution.

W&AF remade and DLC support are the new versions of this mod, and the contain balancing tweaks outside the scope of USKP. (+ currently a massive amout of fixes the uskp doesn't cover yet, reports have been filed. keep fingers crossed for next USKP)

 

i would give enboost a try, if anything is currently on the market that has any credibility to remove CTDs and loading screen issues, it is ENB. if this doesn't help, then i wouldn't know of anything, that does.

[Arthmoor]

As I said, I already tried ENBoost. It did nothing for this.

 

Converting to a false esm probably wouldn't matter either, though I haven't tried it. Can't hurt, but that would effectively cripple the navmeshes even if the USKP wasn't a consideration. I doubt the mod would function well that way.

[KNakamura]

@Leonardo: I was using the STEP guide for those two. IIRC, they didn't seem to conflict with the USKP.

[Leonardo]

Like I said both of them can block the content of USKP and that reminds me about one thing though.  Have you cleaned the mods and you have checked for loose script (.pex) files in the Data\Script folder?

[KNakamura]

@Leonardo: It can, but the one I installed is here which appears to take the USKP into account.

 

They're all now cleaned, and there is a lot of loose scripts, but they appear to be all related to currently installed mods.

[KNakamura]

Ah-ha! On this latest go around I hadn't reinstalled SKSE. A Tundra Defense script popped up, which means I hvae a loose script for that somewhere. Which confuses me, because I remember /deleting/ this folder and reinstalling.. but now to go hunt it down.

[Arthmoor]

For the curious, since someone asked, ESMifying OCS doesn't solve the problems.