Thomas Kaira Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 You know what, I say just go nuclear on this and shut down OCS entirely. That's the only way to prevent that guy's patch from being useful.This whole thing just doesn't seem worth the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Well there's other ways of dealing with that, but they'd have to be coupled with SKSE and incorporate detection for unauthorized content. That certainly wouldn't be ideal, but it's an option.Going nuclear would only slow things down, not eliminate the problem. Any such tactic would have to be combined with taking everything behind a private community wall where only registered membership would have access. In other words, pull a Giskard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 We'll be releasing a new version of Gecko soon that will at least let you determine if that is truly a patch or if he's ripped off your mod. I thought the standard in the community was that patches were ok since they are new content and don't use any of your content. I've seen many unauthorized patches and have never heard any complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 The general standard has always been to ask first. Oblivion didn't have this problem with rip off artists though so it went largely on the honor system. When there is no honor, there can be no honor system, so requiring authorization has become the norm.I know people don't like dealing with this from a legal perspective, but that's basic derivative works copyright. Any patch is technically a derived work of the two mods that are being patched and without authorization they're all being distributed illegally. I doubt the people at Bethesda who made this decision realize what they've decided undermines their own EULA.GStaff was just the messenger in this. So I don't want to see anyone looking to crucify him over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I was going to say. Did something change about unauthorized patches that I'm not aware of? Yeah, kind of a dick move on that guy's part, especially considering Thomas already did a patch, but... Also, wouldn't the optimal solution just be to include Thomas' patch as an optional OCS download with the rest of its files? Shuts down the jackasses, lets the people who want no gates have it. War over slightly ridiculous thing stops, everyone wins? Or maybe that's one of those silly rabbit things. [edit] Ack, iguana ninja'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 That's true. I've been asked when people wanted to do patches for my stuff. I'm just thinking in terms of being paid for mods. With a patch, at least you'd still get paid. People still need your mod to use the patch. Full mod rip-offs bypass you completely and that definitely violates copyright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Even with Oblivion it's not good practice to patch in defiance of a modders' known wishes. There's a reason few if any patches have been made for Giskard's stuff. He doesn't allow it, and even as much of an egotistical prick as he is, that's his right. Â It crosses into a much greyer area if said patch is nothing more than reshaping landscape that's not the unique property of either mod, or moving rocks that occur in the vanilla world, and stuff like that. The purpose of things like that are obvious, but if you're careful and don't touch anything with an ID from either mod, you'd be pretty much in the clear because you could demonstrate it doesn't actually require either one to operate. Â Yes, that means a lot of the UL patches exist within that grey area since permission isn't always possible to obtain, or you only got permission from one side. I think that's also why Vorians and I always chose the path of least resistance when plying that minefield. Â This gate patch? It can't exist without first grafting on to only one mod, and then in doing so deliberately removing something from it that's been expressly placed there. They asked, I said no, that should have ended it right there. I didn't ask Hana to make them to have a bunch of asshats rip them out again. Â The problem now is that Bethesda's decision leaves a loophole large enough to drive a Metrolink train through. All someone needs to do is claim "this is a patch" and the floodgates will open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I also agree that this is undoing your vision of the mod. It's not a patch to fix an incompatibility. It's a patch to undo your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I seem to have the missing furniture issue with Breezehome. I bought it before installing OCS.Edit: Ok, that was weird. I returned to Breezehome and it was still gone. Went upstairs to sleep and it was there when I came back downstairs. Lydia was standing right there, so clearly she took it. :tongue: Seems to be sorted now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 So wait, is your missing stuff back or not? Or did it just turn invisible? Your books being suspended in the air like that suggest it's just invisible for some reason. Â I can't think of anything in OCS that could have brought this about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yeah, it was invisible. I could move the mouse over where the shelves would be and I could still activate them. After going upstairs to sleep, it was visible again.Am I mixing this up with LAL then? I thought in one of the change logs that you fixed some issues with the player homes.I did create a small patch mod in which I tried to fix Lydia's bed. She's still not using it though... Anyway not sure if that's causing an issue then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 LAL had some early problems with the enable parenting, but those have long since been fixed and I'd figure you would have noticed the shelves missing right from the start if it were to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I didn't use LAL for this. I started with it, but just did the camp outside Helgen. So I wasn't sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Open Cities Skyrim v0.8.1Windhelm: Some markers for Blood on the Ice needed to be fixed.Whiterun: A necessary script for part of the Companions quest was left out and has now been included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Okay, I found the source of my load failure problems: Unique Region Names. (Obtained by binary load test)Apparently it is making a change that is clashing very badly with OCS and causing me to hang on the loading screen. This only fixed the new game, though, not the existing game, which leads me to believe there is some unsurprising minor corruption in the save file for that game. I'll need to wait until next character to go ahead with activating this one, or take precautions that I never save while inside Open Windhelm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Odd, since I'm using that too. I'll wager it's probably some dumbass region data conflict though. I'm not sure if his mod has been updated yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Just to let you know, I'm having the same problems with Windhelm that others have reported - missing meshes. I was also unable to load my saved game that was near the city. What was the fix for this? Did people find entering a building and leaving fixed it? I just visited briefly one morning to get the map marker updated and have yet to do anything in the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 When I returned to the city, entered the palace and exited again, things were fine. Not sure if I can load a saved game from inside the city yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Possibly the vanishing statics bug, but it looks like you lost a lot more of the city than would be expected from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hey Thomas, your patch on Nexus is still marked as hidden and people are starting to pester the wrong person about that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 *waves magic wand*There. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Thanks, hopefully your magic wand made all the bad people go away too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Eternal optimist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Someone said that's better than being an eternal grouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Btw, I'm getting the duplicate city map marker issue for Windhelm. Riften and Whiterun seem fine. I haven't checked the others yet in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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