Arthmoor Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Am I correct in assuming there's a level cap? Cause I did the 1Mxp thing and the chars who got boosted are stuck with their xp bars no longer advancing, with their levels all totaling 20. Level caps are slimy things that artificially make the game harder than it should be.Uh. What's ECL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Yeah, 20 is the level cap.ECL... I forget the abbreviation (effective character level?), but there are certain races that are so powerful, they count as being higher level than they are. A level 1 genasi counts as being level 2, for instance. Also drow and deurgars and a couple other races present in NWN2 I forget.To be somewhat fair about the level cap thing, post-20th level advancement in 3e is a bit strange, so 20 was a fairly logical cutoff point. Stuff to add to the xpack and all that. As it is, they got an awful lot in that I wouldn't have expected them to.Too, I don't know what games you've been playing, but boss fights aren't particularly restricted to D&D games alone. Dragon Age would like a word, for instance.Also, I hope you've been keeping up on gear, since, well, it matters a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayle Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 ECL is Effective Character Level, and as Dwip pointed out, some races have extra abilities that make them more powerful and thus they level slower. All Planetouched races are ECL +1, Drow and Duergar are ECL +2, and I believe Deep Gnomes (Svirfneblin) are ECL +1, as well. This basically means that your Experience to level up is determined at Level + ECL Modifier. So a Level 1 Human needs 1,000 xp to reach level 2. A Drow would require 6,000 xp to reach Level 2, and a Aasimar (Planetouched) would require 3,000 xp to reach level 2.As for the Level Cap, Without using the console, it's not even possible to reach it given complete exploration and completion of every quest and sidequest in the game. But, even D&D 3rd Edition has said cap. Because levels over 20 have special rules associated with them for being Epic-Level characters. And thus require an additional Rulebook (Epic Level Handbook) to proceed past level 20.Also, as Dwip said, Equipment is extremely important, and if you're not crafting you're own armor, you're going to need to gather a LOT of money to be able to afford the good gear that makes the later bosses a LOT easier. I mean, turning on God Mode works and all, but that takes all the fun away. :PAll this being said, the Mask of the Betrayer expansion adds Epic Levels and the associated Feats and rules to the game. But in the Regular campaign it is not possible to go past 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 It's been so long since I played 3e, I can't believe I remembered that.Also, it's been a while, but I'm almost certain my first guy hit 20 somewhere in the last dungeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayle Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 The highest I managed to reach on the regular campaign doing EVERY quest, was 18 and 3/4. Then again, I was a Tiefling. So that could have contributed to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'm completely sure I hit 19 at least with my elf, but pretty sure it was 20.Since none of you actually follow me, let me say that I've decided to do a little experiment and preempt Samson's eventual scathing review by tweeting my way through the game. Tutorial down, a whole lot more to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 It's only a scathing review because the interface utterly ruined what could have been a much better experience. All that story writing and stuff was mostly sidelined by my general inability to actually play the game properly.Clearly games overstuffed with ridiculous battles are not for me. Final dungeon, I'm talking to you. Good lord. Also, some fucking clue about what I was supposed to do would have helped, for I stumbled around for a very long time before I realized Ammon Jerro was giving hints. The interface issues made it nearly impossible to see that he was doing so though.Also, Sand, you damn traitorous dog, you deserved to die. So did you Bishop, but you had sense enough to leave before I could help you with that.All of my guys made level 20, so I probably didn't need to cheat. Also, not happy at all about effectively being told we're all dead at the end. That's bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Also' date=' I am once more reminded why these D&D style games are losing favor. Battles with insanely overpowered things like red dragons is *NOT* fun, ever. It's also *NOT* fun to make a deal with said dragon only to have it conveniently break that deal because the developers were assholes and wanted to force you to fight it. I was left with little choice but to enable god mode to bring that thing down after it burnt my entire party to a crisp several times before I even knew what hit me. Being made to reload your game several times before having to give in and cheat to get past it is about the most ridiculous thing ever. I swear, if the mission I'm being sent on now really does turn out to have a mountain full of the things I'll just turn god mode on and leave it on for the duration. I fucking knew they couldn't resist revisiting the insanity levels of Icewind Dale.Tempted to cheat grant myself about a million xp to take a stab at evening the odds.[/quote']That Red Dragon will go down quick to ice or magic attacks, if you have Sand or Qara in the party she's toast in three rounds It helps to have elemental resistance spells to drop on your casters/archers as well.The thing with the encounter is it requires you to think party-wise at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Also' date=' Sand, you damn traitorous dog, you deserved to die. So did you Bishop, but you had sense enough to leave before I could help you with that.[/quote']Ah, but it didn't have to be that way.Did you get teh elf sex?That made me chuckle when I played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Nope. Silly me, left the near useless druid behind on most missions. Turned out to be the only romance option for a male, which was just plain stupid. I wasn't exactly pleased with the fact that they didn't make a romance option with Shandra Jerro, she seemed like the obvious choice so I was pushing her influence up at every opportunity. I was rather pissed when they killed her off. With as much as they did with Neeshka you'd have thought she'd be an option as well but apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 1. No, that final dungeon/ending was just shit, and I don't know anybody who doesn't agree. Hear tell they had to do it that way because they got rushed, but even so, almost anything would have been better than what we actually got.2. Re: interface, I'm having excellent luck putting it in what I think is exploration mode and zooming the camera all the way out. Remap the camera controls to WASD (using D for left and A for right helps). Hold middle mouse to rotate when you need to change views. Turns into a more or less managable BG-like experience.Still way worse than it ought to be, let us agree, but not as awful as it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Also, not sure how Sand could have turned out different. I never had a chance to say anything to stop him from turning on me. Fortunately he died quickly when the rest of us stormed him.On that subject, FUCK this shit with only being allowed 4 party members. If you're going to give me all these people I want to take ALL of them with me EVERY time. That sure would have evened things up properly in a lot of situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Even BG's 6-person party would have helped out a lot. Especially once it starts saddling you with must-take NPCs all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Also' date=' not sure how Sand could have turned out different. I never had a chance to say anything to stop him from turning on me. Fortunately he died quickly when the rest of us stormed him.On that subject, FUCK this shit with only being allowed 4 party members. If you're going to give me all these people I want to take ALL of them with me EVERY time. That sure would have evened things up properly in a lot of situations.[/quote']It's a five person party, sometimes you get a bonus one as well, Kotor allowed you to take 2 people with you that was irritating.Re Sand: http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/SandHave a read, as I'm assuming you won't play again the spoilers won't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Hey Samson or Dwip; one (or both) of you should totally do this. You'd be awesome at it.http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/3653-open-scholarship-positions/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well, I'm almost tempted. I'd be a lot more tempted if I had any sort of interaction with TESA at all, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conner Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 My mod completely and totally works now. More on this later.Cool' date=' gratz! "We wish you a happy valentine's day.. by you' date=' we mean all the girls out there. To the guys we just wish you a speedy recovery."[/quote']So true. Sarah is ever so much more sentimental about these things than I ever am' date=' although in a charming way and not a super-annoying way. I chose well in this regard.[/quote']:nod: And you got lucky that she chose you too. Didn't do the Valentine's weekend thing instead to make up for not being able to be together for the main event?This weekend is the one she could get off' date=' so it's the one we're doing. Probably works out better that way' date=' since I now have an un-snowed in car and the doctor told me I could start walking around like a human again today.[/quote'']Hey! Gratz on that news too! (If this coming weekend's when she could get off, then it does work out better anyway. Agreed. After hours of NWN Diamond edition' date=' you start to get used to it' date=' but even that was painfully reminiscent of PS:T, if not as bad. Hell, even in PS:T you eventually get used to dealing with it, but I can't say I ever got to where I actually liked it.[/quote'']What kills me in both cases, of course, is that BG1/BG2 had a really excellent interface system that worked great and pretty much flawlessly. In the case of PS:T, you can make the excuse that the engine is actually of an older vintage than BG, so of course it's less polished, but NWN has no excuse. Of course, the only excuse for NWN as an entire game is Deekin, but that's a seperate thing altogether.Sadly, while PS:T may have used an older engine, it was released after BG1 if memory serves.I don't recall what Deekin might be at all. But' date=' even D&D 3rd Edition has said cap. Because levels over 20 have special rules associated with them for being Epic-Level characters. And thus require an additional Rulebook (Epic Level Handbook) to proceed past level 20.[/quote']Samson, for what it's worth, in earlier versions of D&D post-level 20 you were basically a demi-god, in 3rd edition they implemented something called Epic levels so that you could basically keep advancing with special rules and special abilities that still leaves you considerably less than a deity in your own right, but still way beyond most mortals. In theory it expands the game play significantly, in practice I think it mostly expands the profit potential for Wizards of the Coast significantly now that everyone suddenly needs a whole new set of books once they reach higher levels. Hey Samson or Dwip; one (or both) of you should totally do this. You'd be awesome at it.http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/3653-open-scholarship-positions/ Well' date=' I'm almost tempted. I'd be a lot more tempted if I had any sort of interaction with TESA at all' date=' of course.[/quote'']That sounds way more up Dwip's alley than Samson's to me. Samson's got the talent, but Dwip's the one who thrives on putting together all these tutorials all the time. Just my opinion, but.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 And you got lucky that she chose you too.Why yes' date=' yes I did.Sadly' date=' while PS:T may have used an older engine, it was released after BG1 if memory serves. I don't recall what Deekin might be at all.[/quote']Deekin is a kobold bard in Shadows of Udrentide for NWN1. Amusing as hell.And yeah, PS;T came out after BG1, but used a forked version of a fairly early Infinity Engine build that got features slapped on top of it as they were making the more polished BG1 version. One of these obviously turned out better than the other.in practice I think it mostly expands the profit potential for Wizards of the Coast significantly now that everyone suddenly needs a whole new set of books once they reach higher levels.Only the one, really, at least that's how it was in 3e. I forget how the 2e one worked. Not nearly as egregious as all of the class/race books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 How to tell when I am actually sick: Sleep for 12 hours straight. Yeah. Imagine my surprise. Nothing like a 103 degree fever to kill any will to exist you might have. Not to mention a lung full of gross stuff.Was Deekin a companion from Undertide? They sort of hinted that he had been part of an adventuring group but I couldn't remember who he was. Guess that's why, I despised NWN1 enough to shun the add-ons. Much like NWN2, unless someone is feeling generous enough to send me the add-ons for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Ouch. That does sound like you're sick, all right. Maybe NWN2 was angry about you not liking it?Yeah, Deekin's from Udrentide. Which was actually pretty good, despite being hobbled by NWN1. It also has the fortune of including Deekin, who is as I say hilarious. Best comedy relief NPC ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Aww, hope you feel better soon, Samson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Working on it. Vitamin C + really hot chicken soup. Best remedy ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayle Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Deekin was/is Epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Frekin Spanish Telecom! Knock that shit off!This has been a rant against whoever it is in Spain that saw fit to foul up Apache for me. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I wondered what that was about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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