Hana Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 You guys really need to learn how to make new topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 What blasphemy is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 You guys really need to learn how to make new topics. Must be a man thing."Who needs a new topic? This one will do fine, we just need to hit it with a hammer and cut the legs off." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayle Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I dunno. When you couple NWN2 with the Mask of the Betrayer expansion, the ending actually becomes cohesive. KotOR 2 doesn't have that. It just ends. Badly. I kindof thought it was a tribute to the old westerns where the hero would ride off into the sunset. But then I played through Dark Side and got the Same. Exact. Ending. And that's when I realized, that they didn't really end it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 See, the MotB intro just struck me as a "Well, our ending sucked, how do we pull this out of our ass for the xpack?" sort of thing. The actual expansion isn't bad, it's just hard to care after the slog that is the main game.KOTOR 2 actually had things going on in it that I cared about. Those NPCs were mostly pretty win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Not all together different from FO3 then, where Bethesda was all "oops, people wanted to keep playing?" and then had to pull that out of their asses with a DLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 See' date=' the MotB intro just struck me as a "Well, our ending sucked, how do we pull this out of our ass for the xpack?" sort of thing. The actual expansion isn't bad, it's just hard to care after the slog that is the main game.KOTOR 2 actually had things going on in it that I cared about. Those NPCs were mostly pretty win.[/quote']I always felt that KOTOR 2 NPC's started out promising, but then just turned into basic cookie-cutter Star Wars characters, Bastila and Carth were far more fun than Aton or Brianna.But then, KOTOR 1 had win written all over it, best plot in an RPG EVER.No, really:EVER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I feel that BG2 and Jade Empire give it a good run for its money, but yeah, KOTOR1 is really right up there in the top rank.Pretty sure I'm done with Pazaak now though.Interrogative: What about HK-47, meatbag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 @Hana: so much for the Skyrim topic... At least they're back to talking about computer games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 This topic is now about cookies! :smile: :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayle Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Interrogative: What about HK-47' date=' meatbag?[/quote']Explanation: You are not worthy of hearing of his greatness, meatbag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I feel that BG2 and Jade Empire give it a good run for its money' date=' but yeah, KOTOR1 is really right up there in the top rank.Pretty sure I'm done with Pazaak now though. Interrogative: What about HK-47, meatbag?[/quote']Done with Pazaak? Pah, foolishness.What about Jolee Bindo? Gotta love the crazy old man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 When you go so far as to find a standalone version of it to play outside the game, well, enough is perhaps enough.I actually really didn't like Jolee for some reason. I guess he worked, but enh.And by "enh" I mean "still better than 90% of all other NPCs not in a KOTOR game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prettyfly Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 What do you guys think about this guy's suggestions about what the Creation Kit should include?Some of it sounds good to me, some of it I'm not so sure on. If anything else there's some stuff I'd just rather be left with third party tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I can get behind the cleaning thing well enough, but I'm not sure if I think his new file format thing would be useful, or just a disaster. I'm fairly sure I'd prefer better community conventions on that stuff.Frankly, of all the things mentioned in that thread that I saw, the one that worries me most is how they're going to deal with voice. That was a real bitch to deal with for a very long time, and I'm not really looking forward to reprising the bad old days with Skyrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I didn't like most of his suggestions. Mods don't need cleaning - the CS just needs a better mechanism for marking changed records in the first place. Bundling all the resources in each mod is the stupidest idea I've ever seen. I didn't bother reading the rest. shadeMe has fixed most of that stuff with the CSE, so hopefully Beth has done the same. He even fixed the LIP synch. If not, we'll bug shadeMe to do a CKSE :PAlso don't forget that the Creation Kit comes in two parts with Skyrim. I'm still waiting for more info on what's going to be in each part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Also don't forget that the Creation Kit comes in two parts with Skyrim. I'm still waiting for more info on what's going to be in each part.Wait, what with the who now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 Oh God, no no no. I don't like this idea of one big pack file one bit. That has to die and die FAST. I've heard so may complaints about how that's made a mess of DA modding and Witcher modding. So for the love of God, someone go tell this guy he's a fool!The dirty mod thing, yes, I can get behind that easily. From what I've seen mentioned, if the mod format for Skyrim differs radically enough from Oblivion, we won't be getting a TES5Edit because Elminster no longer has the time to mess with it. That leaves us with vastly inferior utilities like Gecko, which itself hasn't seen a proper update in years. So if Bethesda can nip that one in the bud from the start, great. CSE is nice and all, but it's dirty record filtering isn't 100% yet.Also on the TES4/5Edit front - conflict detection. Oh man, if we don't have TES5Edit, we're going to be screwed hugely on the ability to detect those. No other utility can come close. Fortunately we'll be seeing a Bash for Skyrim, but I doubt those guys really want to expand Bash into a full scale replacement for TES4/5Edit anytime soon.His proposal for conflict resolution at the game level sucks on every level imaginable. Just don't.Also, Jesus Christ, no XML files or I'll have to shoot someone. Whoever thought that was a good data storage and expression format should be erased from history.I second Dwip's WTF - what's this about a 2-part CK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Re. CK part 1 and 2: It was mentioned in one of the early interviews with Todd. It was a print article, not a video. I had linked it on Modcraft, but we had this guy messing around with our forums and he deleted the thread. Stupid idiot (ticked because he has no technical skills at all and should never have been given admin privileges). I will try to dig up the article.But I haven't seen any mention of it since, so I don't know what the deal is.Edit: Now that I read some of the links, I'm wondering if it was just the weird way it was phrased previously. I think that what Todd said is that the new engine is called the Creation Engine and the toolkit was going to be called the Creation Kit. I think one of the game articles scrambled that a bit. So it looks like it's just the Creation Kit. Sorry for the misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Not even going to read the link because, like everything else in those forums, threads with "suggestions" at this point in time are just stupid.The CK is made, they use it. Why the hell would they change it to give to modders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Oh God' date=' no no no. I don't like this idea of one big pack file one bit. That has to die and die FAST. I've heard so may complaints about how that's made a mess of DA modding and Witcher modding. So for the love of God, someone go tell this guy he's a fool!The dirty mod thing, yes, I can get behind that easily. From what I've seen mentioned, if the mod format for Skyrim differs radically enough from Oblivion, we won't be getting a TES5Edit because Elminster no longer has the time to mess with it. That leaves us with vastly inferior utilities like Gecko, which itself hasn't seen a proper update in years. So if Bethesda can nip that one in the bud from the start, great. CSE is nice and all, but it's dirty record filtering isn't 100% yet. Also on the TES4/5Edit front - conflict detection. Oh man, if we don't have TES5Edit, we're going to be screwed hugely on the ability to detect those. No other utility can come close. Fortunately we'll be seeing a Bash for Skyrim, but I doubt those guys really want to expand Bash into a full scale replacement for TES4/5Edit anytime soon. His proposal for conflict resolution at the game level sucks on every level imaginable. Just don't. Also, Jesus Christ, no XML files or I'll have to shoot someone. Whoever thought that was a good data storage and expression format should be erased from history. I second Dwip's WTF - what's this about a 2-part CK?[/quote']I would imagine we will be royally dicked for about ayear, because Beth's QQ is quite poor and we are unlikely to get, for example, working conflict detection. So someone will have to step up to the plate, as you Colonials say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Well without a TES5Edit, we're going to have to beg and plead with the Bash team to get something that can substitute for it. CBash is already far enough along that it could be used for dirty record cleaning in Oblivion, so if they stick to the same file formats it might not be so bad because Bash will have a huge leg up on everyone else and could establish itself early as THE choice for mod management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Well without a TES5Edit' date=' we're going to have to beg and plead with the Bash team to get something that can substitute for it. CBash is already far enough along that it could be used for dirty record cleaning in Oblivion, so if they stick to the same file formats it might not be so bad because Bash will have a huge leg up on everyone else and could establish itself early as THE choice for mod management.[/quote']You are assuming no new and talented programmers. It is quite likely that someone will producean equivilent to TES4Edit, just not immidiately. Oblivion modding is probably one of the most developed scenes online, certainly in the West, to expect modding Skyrim to be as easy straight off is unrealistic.It is going to take about a year to get up to speed, but it will have a leg up because the advanced tools for Oblivion will point the direction for what modders are probably going to need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 TES4Edit didn't reach a useable form until sometime in 2008. I doubt anyone wants to wait 2 years for that in Skyrim. While there are some good programmers out there, if they have to decipher a new record format first we're going to be hobbled badly in this area for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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