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Hana

NOT a Happy Camper

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LOLOL. I know vanilla Ob is pretty boring, but this is taking it too far. WTF happened? Where's the bridge and buildings???That was testing a plain old install, Ob, SI, official and unofficial patches. That's all. And yes, I've run TES4LODGen.Edit: Wow, Oblivion is pretty cranky. It was simply because I used a save where I was in Bravil at the time. Once I jumped outside the cell and back it was fine. Hahaha.@Conner; the security crap in Win7 that doesn't let you do anything.

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Hana, for your sake I hope you didn't install your game under Program Files. If you did, you will live to regret that choice soon enough.

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Nope, I've read enough horror stories about that.I made a folder just under C: called Elder Scrolls, installed everything there. Still had to change all the security in the folders.It's just driving me nuts everytime I go to install a program with Windows asking me if I want such-and-such to make changes. Well, duh.Got the directX 9 thing sorted, thanks guys.

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Ah, the joys of UAC. You know, I've been a Battletech player so long I still parse that as Ultra Autocannon.Hopefully you're running as administrator - minus a couple of popup messages, admin + UAC should just work except for a couple of abnormalities with the CS that I think are Win7 and not UAC. I'm not sure if it's changed in 7, but the non-admin account + UAC route was a nightmare in Vista.

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My experience has been, since Win95, that it's rarely worth it to bother using non-administer accounts in Windows unless they're established solely for folks you're letting share your computer and even then, most of the time it's much easier to just only have one logon. It's not like I'm using the Windows computer as a server and there's secure data on it anyway, all that would be on my Linux box or my Linux server or my external hard drive, all of which need real passwords and such to access. My Windows boxes are basically just way better gaming consoles for the most part. ;)

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I've always used Windows with an admin level account. Leave the logins and account management crap to the Linux guys, or the corporate domain guys. At home, I don't want to be bothered with it. Though I doubt any of us would think twice if UAC had been part of Windows all along.

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Exactly. In my office (or at work, when I still worked IT), I expect to have to deal with administration type matters but for my own personal computer, I don't need admin versus user issues at all. Obviously if I'm installing a game on my PC it's because I want to play it, I certainly don't need the OS double checking me on it.As for how we'd be reacting to this if it'd been part of Windows since the 3.x days, you're right, we'd have railed against it at the time as not making sense and wouldn't even notice it anymore because we'd just be used to it being a facet of dealing with Windows. On the other hand, would Windows ever have gained the market share it now enjoys if every end-user had had to deal with UAC type nonsense from day one?

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Well, something would have taken hold. Either Windows or OS/2. I doubt very much you'd have seen a mass exodus to the Mac platform back then. If Windows had come with user accounts and logins from the start, nobody would have questioned it. Who knows, it might have led to a much more secure OS by now if things had been done that way at the start.

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You're probably right. The technically minded would've bitched and moaned, but we'd have all gotten used to it. (The UAC aspect that is, I think Windows has had user accounts and logins since Windows 3.11 actually, it just never bitched about user actions needing admin authority until Vista except in NT where folks expected it to be that way. Maybe a little in XP, but they were still just having it start a little there to get folks used to the idea for Vista.) But I doubt that, even if Windows had been a bit less end-user friendly apple would've done any better than it did. NeXT looked pretty promising for a bit, as did amiga, but neither really caught on anymore than commodore... :shrug:

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The reason the Amiga didn't catch on was because of Commodore. It was their product. Commodore just failed hard at marketing it. Can't speak to NeXT because I paid very little attention to any of Apple's products back that far. If it didn't do color, I didn't care, and they stubbornly sold black & white machines for YEARS beyond what should have been normal.

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It should be:QTP3 (in whatever flavor you want)UOP 3.2.0QTP3 UOP32 PatchUOP Supplemental - because there are a few meshes that had corrections AFTER the QTP3 patch.Also' date=' you *DO* need the QTP3 patch even if using Redimized. Redimized does *NOT* contain the corrected meshes from the patch. [/quote']Seriously? I had it wrong all this time. The UOP and UOPS are the first things I install. So you're saying when I add QTP3 (which I'll be doing shortly), I should re-install the UOP's?And oh, the joys of installing body mods and DarNUI... [/whine]

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@Arthmoor: I don't recall NeXT being black & white only, and I did get a chance to play with one briefly while I was still active duty in the Navy, but they had some sweet specs. The real problem with NeXT was that they had no upgrade slots and they were expensive The problem with Amiga was mainly the pricing scheme, but yes, once Commodore collapsed they took all their products with them and, yes, the main reason for their collapse was marketing failure.@Hana: Hmm, I think I'd been doing it that way too. Doesn't load order fix all that anyway though? Isn't that sort of the point of adjusting your load order? (On the other hand, does this mean I should have QTP3 in my load order ahead of the UOPs?) :sad:

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Seriously. QTP3 (and the Redimized version too) are baseline installers. The UOP fixes meshes, and needs to overwrite things QTP3 has no fixes for. Then the QTP3 patch to those meshes goes over that.I would have figured the UOPS to be obvious since it comes out last of all. :)Load order cannot resolve a situation like this since QTP3 has no plugin file. Order of installation can be radically different from the game's plugin load order. Which is why using BAIN is such a critical step in getting install order right.

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Actually, you can mess with package load order in BAIN if you want, and yes it can actually matter, plugin or no. But that's all fun in BAIN. Just to make that possibility obvious if it isn't. I dunno, I'm kinda braindead right now.So you're telling me I need to stop repacking my UOP rar with the UOPS stuff, and install it as a seperate BAIN package, or?Edit: Also, go answer my question in the AFK_Tweaks thread. :P

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So, basically, UOPS should have a warning in the readme that it needs to be installed only after you've finished installing every other mod or QTP3 or redimized or anything else you might ever decide to install? :P

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I've actually never played with install order in BAIN. Guess there's a first time for everything :)At the risk of sounding really stupid, a couple of questions;- install order is simply top down in the installers tab?- I can manipulate the install order and just hit install again with the order above?- Or, do I have to uninstall the UOP's first?

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Once you get things in the order you want them, BAIN should take it from there. You likely won't need to do anything. Some stuff will remain yellow or orange if a mod overrides one of its resources, so don't be surprised when QTP3 and the UOP have a lot of file conflicts. This is where BAIN shines over OBMM - BAIN knows how to keep it straight, whereas OBMM will blindly uninstall no matter how many files are shared in common.

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Seriously. QTP3 (and the Redimized version too) are baseline installers. The UOP fixes meshes' date=' and needs to overwrite things QTP3 has no fixes for. Then the QTP3 patch to those meshes goes over that.

I would have figured the UOPS to be obvious since it comes out last of all. :)

Load order cannot resolve a situation like this since QTP3 has no plugin file. Order of installation can be radically different from the game's plugin load order. Which is why using BAIN is such a critical step in getting install order right.[/quote']QTP3 Patch is a bit.... broken, as I discovered with regard to doors in Chorrol, because Qarl basically ripped the modelled hinges off the upper class doors and then moved their position in the texture. Though, to be honest, I'm considering just removing the chorrol doors anyway, the massive hinges create all sorts of ugliness with mods made without QTP.

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When dealing with BAIN, install order is NOT the same thing as load order.The Installers tab has an order all its own, and you organize that based on which resource files in the mods you want to override others. So you can shift their positions on that list to get things set up nice. That's what the whole UOP+QTP3 stuff is all about, getting those resources in the proper order.The Mods tab is where you deal with the actual plugin files - the ESMs and ESPs. The order of THOSE is not going to be the same and in fact will often be radically different from the order their resources were installed in. The reasons for this are huge and technical but are generally handled by such secondary utilities as BOSS. You can of course adjust the load order manually too, and I do.

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I can guarantee I had it wrong the first time. In fact, I'm pretty sure I never even saw the "Order" heading in the installers tab before, lol.It's quite easy to move install order around, and I'm pretty sure it's done right this time. I have defeated the beast known as BASH/BAIN. :cool:

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Okay.. so I need to go into the installers tab and make sure that QTP3 comes before UOPS... Is there any thing else that I should know about that wouldn't have fallen into place automatically from modder instructions to BAIN to begin with that you know of? (While we're at it anyway.)

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