[RELz/WIPz] Unofficial Skyrim Patch

[VaultDuke]

Hey DayDreamer, if you want to hunt down empty leveled lists, this should be a quick thing. Wrye Bash removed any empty sublist from leveled lists automatically. incidentally, i never had a problem with any reward/drop (said for the one starting at level 8) not producing anything.

but i think it would a godd thing to remove all empty lists from the leveled lists in USKP (whether vanilla or USKP introduced).

it might mess up some loot mods though, which the automatic wrye bash method does not.

 

secondly: i think utilizing an empty leveled list for a different entry is not a goood idea. the Circlet of Waterbreathing should be added to the leveled list directly, and the empty enchanting list should be remove from it.

 

re your messaging service dislikes: please keep in mind that this is a open fan project. the chat is mosty used for socializing. sometimes some discuss a fix they are working on or stumbled upon in chat, which is (if fruitfull) posted on the tracker at the end of the day). there is no need to use the chat if you dislike those. people should be free to work on the fixes the way thay feel the most comfortable with, the way they enjoy the most. not the way it would be most efficient. i know for you as a professional, this is unusual. but really, the USKP as a fan project need a bunch of open port for newcomers, and different places for people, where they enjoy hanging out, so that anyone can feel happy working on or contributing to the USKP.

[DayDreamer]

Hey DayDreamer, if you want to hunt down empty leveled lists, this should be a quick thing. Wrye Bash removed any empty sublist from leveled lists automatically.

Sorry, not a Bash user. Never needed it. What's the "quick thing"?

As I wrote a few days ago: "But could use some help looking for other leveled list problems. Please!"

incidentally, i never had a problem with any reward/drop (said for the one starting at level 8) not producing anything.

but i think it would a godd thing to remove all empty lists from the leveled lists in USKP (whether vanilla or USKP introduced).

it might mess up some loot mods though, which the automatic wrye bash method does not.

The only reason I'm looking into it is I did have actual problems. It's taken me many hours to track these down, as it took both guesswork and lots of testing. The random events themselves were impossible to reproduce. But the same lists are used for merchants.

Apparently folks already knew empty lists were a bad idea. Too bad they didn't document it. Also too bad USKP added some more of them.

secondly: i think utilizing an empty leveled list for a different entry is not a goood idea. the Circlet of Waterbreathing should be added to the leveled list directly, and the empty enchanting list should be remove from it.

There should never be an enchanted enchanting list. I was mighty surprised to find 2 of them: circlets and rings. So I took over the empty circlet list, renamed it slightly, and put 1 entry into it. That list is used in 3 places. So maybe it was lazy, but I thought it was expeditious.

re your messaging service dislikes: please keep in mind that this is a open fan project. the chat is mosty used for socializing....

I think you are on the wrong topic thread. But it would be helpful for folks who use chat or whatever to post the results in the tracker, and copy the chat log into the discussion thread for preservation.

[VaultDuke]

the quick thing is to look inside a bashed patch and write down all the removed entries. i'm going to do just that now and put it on the tracker.

i agree, it would be good, to preserve usefull discussions and bug findings from the chatlogs

 

edit: done

http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/15173-empty-leveled-lists-generating-holes-in-their-parent-lists/

[Arthmoor]

Chat logs are not meant for consumption on the forums, so that's not something we're going to do. Bugs that need tracker entries generally get them if a chat session results in one being needed so I think that's sufficient.

[DayDreamer]

the quick thing is to look inside a bashed patch and write down all the removed entries. i'm going to do just that now and put it on the tracker.

i agree, it would be good, to preserve usefull discussions and bug findings from the chatlogs

 

edit: done

http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/15173-empty-leveled-lists-generating-holes-in-their-parent-lists/

Thank you, really wonderful! Saved a lot of time, and a lot more than I would have guessed.... Because of my specific bugs, I'd only looked at jewelry: circlets, necklaces, rings. I'll make up another patch for the rest.

 

The folks over at UESP declared the missing Circlet of Waterbreathing isn't a bug -- it is cut content. Lordy, it's hard to tell the difference. What do folks here think?

 

AFAIK, there aren't any other examples of Ench labeled game data that aren't in a list. It's low-level (as is the more expensive necklace version).

 

OTOH, perhaps a developer decided that unlike all the other TES games, waterbreathing should be almost impossible. They entirely removed waterwalking in the base game.

 

Because of the very buggy lists, it looks like a bug to me. I have a tendency to assume that so many related mistakes mean all of them are unintentional.

[DayDreamer]

Additional data: in the list Gruftlord made, there are instances where the empty poisondrain list is used for a Dummy potion placed in the game. For example: LItemPoisonDrainRestorationBest is found at BleakwindBluff and DA0BoethiaShrine.

 

So at least some of these things could be intended to be in-game, and look like silly mistakes.

 

What to do? Fill the lists? Or change the Dummy to something that exists?

 

UPDATE: Having compared all these effects, it appears that none of them are able to be created by standard alchemy. For example, there are 4 ingredients with Fortify Marksman, but nothing with Drain Marksman.

 

Basically, the poison ingredients mainly affect Stamina, Magicka, and Health. All these others were never implemented. But level designers didn't know that, and included them in containers and placed items. It's going to be a bit of work to fix.

[VaultDuke]

No, a i said its easy to fix with bash. Create the bashed patch and copy the entries. No need for a manual aproach. It looks like alot, but really most is just those missing poisons, and you would only in rare cases realize ingame, if the poison was missing

[DayDreamer]

No, a i said its easy to fix with bash. Create the bashed patch and copy the entries. No need for a manual aproach. It looks like alot, but really most is just those missing poisons, and you would only in rare cases realize ingame, if the poison was missing

Maybe, but I wanted to check how things are used, not just blindly delete. In fact, found some inconsistencies. Plus, the potions should be fixed. The timestamp tells how long it took for the PoisonDrain: http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/files/file/1150-fix-poisondrain-leveled-lists/

 

Next up, what about Enchanted Robes of Enchanting? Unlike circlets and rings, there is a MGEF: EnchRobesFortifyEnchantingConstantSelf with 0 users.

 

Were these deliberately cut? Or accidentally not populated?

[DayDreamer]

MGEF EnchWaterbreathingConstantSelf is listed as Restoration school.

 

WaterbreathingConstantSelf is unused, and WaterbreathingFFSelf is spells and scrolls, are both listed as Alteration school.

[VaultDuke]

all apparel schools were restoration in vanilla. this is somewhat consistent through out the bank, if odd.

 

there was a bug where all apparell would benefit from drinking a potion of restortion before equipping. the boost would not go away after the potion ended. therefor all enchantments have been changed to "none" in USKP. you should probably load the USKP in the CK, too when looking around for bugs and/or making patches, lest you might provide one that reverts some older changes.

 

side note: UESP is a very unreliable source anyway, especially their "bug reports" are a horribly laughable mess, devoid of any verification process and their comments sections are filled with aimless brabble by people who never installed the CK and have no idea what they are talking about. if you want to find out why some false advice for ini tweaks or other harmfull advice will not die out, it's hubs like these.

it's a nice collection of information if you need a quick look or find a formID and it's much better and error free than the elderscrolls wikia, but i'd take anything with a grain of salt.

[DayDreamer]

all apparel schools were restoration in vanilla. this is somewhat consistent through out the bank, if odd.

 

there was a bug where all apparell would benefit from drinking a potion of restortion before equipping. the boost would not go away after the potion ended. therefor all enchantments have been changed to "none" in USKP. you should probably load the USKP in the CK, too when looking around for bugs and/or making patches, lest you might provide one that reverts some older changes.

I do load USKP in CK, and concurrently in TES5Eedit, while making changes and checking for bugs. This must be one that USKP missed. Fixed to None. Thanks!

UPDATE: USKP also missed EnchMuffleConstantSelf. Fixed Restoration -> None

[VaultDuke]

uh, wait a second, my bad. i think some were left out from the change, because the change would do nothing anyway. like: what is the improved version of watebreathing? 120% waterbreathing? iirc, power affect magnitude flag needs to be set on the MGEF, to benefit from potions etc. muffle and waterbreathing do not benefit from power increases, so they were left out for convenience.

 

note to self: follow your own advice before giving snippy comments

 

edit: ok i see that both have the power affects magnitude flag. though i'm sure waterbreathing has no increased effect at values > 1 anyway.

muffle, i'm not so sure. i think prince Shroob or Arthmoor must know more about the reasonings mehind this.

iirc self made boots have a power of 1 anyway, and i'm not sure how bigger values will or will not mess with the formula.

nightingale boots on the other hand for example have values <1 and might benefit from the restoration potion exploit.

[Screwball]

Talking about Muffle... how come the Spell seems to be far more effective than an enchanted item? Surely it's an on/off effect - either you're muffled or you're not.

[VaultDuke]

nope. spell and self made boots have a magnitude of 1, random loot and even unique items usually have less

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Muffle_%28effect%29 (lol yeah, i know UESP. this article seems mostly correct and well informed though. also some known names to be found on the talk page)

[Screwball]

Do they stack by any chance - boots and spell?

 

I'll have to test this carefully. I'm convinced there's a difference, even with Boots I enchanted myself (with a very strong potion and a Grand soul).

 

UESP is a highly useful site for quickly checking things - an indispensable reference. BUT, where they're not dealing with facts but with subjective views (like bugs) then the quality does drop somewhat

 

Moral - carry several Salt Piles when visiting.

[Leonardo]

There is another thing to consider is that the Muffle spell effect is constant on boots while it isn't with a spell, so i think that will make the difference less important between an enchanted boots and a Muffle spell.

[Screwball]

 Not really, if the difference is between being detected (wearing "boots of muffle") and not being detected (casting the spell). The duration is pretty much irrelevent if you have Quiet Casting because you can just cast it again, and it lasts for 2 mins (realtime) which is often more than enough. The effect is more important than the duration.

 

As I said - I need to test this carefully.

[VaultDuke]

you can also take your loot boots, disenchant them and enchant what ever you are wearing right now with the cheapest soul gem you can find. instant 100% muffle. really, read that uesp page

 

what i would like to see tested in potion of restorations effect on loot drop boots. the talk page on uesp has some explanation on how to do that

[Screwball]

I've answered my own question - they do stack, but there's a cap at 1.0 so anything over that gives no extra effect.

 

These are not loot boots. They're Glass Boots + Muffle + Fortify One-Handed (+54%). The "loot boots" were disenchanted long ago, but I do have many of the "built in" ones. Nightingale Boots, Shrouded Boots etc.

 

I just read the page you linked to, and its Discussion page - there's no reference to Restoration there.

 

Are you suggesting testing the effect of drinking a Fortfy Restoration potion on how well, or otherwise, a pair of built-in "boots with the Muffle enchantment" perform? The chances of me finding a pair in random loot, or in a merchant's inventory, are quite low at this stage of the game (though I could try).

 

Currently at Level 69, Restoration Skill of 53 with no perks. Lt Armor 95 (no perks), Heavy Armour 18 (no perks).

 

Or I could just upload a savegame for you to look at...

[VaultDuke]

ok, i just did a test myself using console commands.

i gave a level 1 character nightingale boots and used the console command mentioned on the uesp talk page.

muffle multiplier dropped from 1 to 0.75 for that particular set of boots.

then i went to qasmoke and got a robe or restoration and a potion of restoration.

unequipped the boots, put the robe on, drank the potion and reequipped to boots.

muffle multiplier still at 0.75.

 

no need to set the enchantment to "none" school. it's working correctly the way it is.

as for using several sources of muffle: i think it's additive.

 

if you want to check for yourself, the console command is player.getavinfo movementnoisemult

[Screwball]

Makes no sense to me at all, but anyway...

My current game as noted above. Values are the "Current value", middle column is Nightingale Boots

           No Armor   N'gale   My Boots
             1.00      0.25      0.00
Potion +60%  1.00     -0.20      0.00
Potion +139% 1.00     -0.79      0.00

 

 

[VaultDuke]

I bet you missed a - somewhere with the nightingale boots. Everything else looks correct

[Screwball]

 Nope - checked and rechecked - definitely 0.25 with no other armor and no potion. Can do you a screenie if you want one.

 

Amended table above to include the results of a +139% Potion.

[Jumps-Down-Stairs]

Maybe, but I wanted to check how things are used, not just blindly delete. In fact, found some inconsistencies. Plus, the potions should be fixed. The timestamp tells how long it took for the PoisonDrain: http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/files/file/1150-fix-poisondrain-leveled-lists/

 

Next up, what about Enchanted Robes of Enchanting? Unlike circlets and rings, there is a MGEF: EnchRobesFortifyEnchantingConstantSelf with 0 users.

 

Were these deliberately cut? Or accidentally not populated?

 

Just like there are no potions that fortify alchemy, there are no enchantments that fortify enchanting. That would allow for some ugly self-buffing loops, like the fortify restoration buffing enchantments loop already mentioned that was fixed.

[Leonardo]

 

Makes no sense to me at all, but anyway...

My current game as noted above. Values are the "Current value", middle column is Nightingale Boots

           No Armor   N'gale   My Boots
             1.00      0.25      0.00
Potion +60%  1.00     -0.20      0.00
Potion +139% 1.00     -0.79      0.00

It also depends what kind of armor you're wearing I mean it's heavy or not, but also is it light or heavy armor. 

 

Let me ask you...  Have you been in Hag's End yet?

 

If so then go back there and go through the entire dungeon, because you need go out there you killed the Hagraven on the top level in Arngeir's Word Of Power quest.  The reason I mention is because I know there is a Predator's Grace boots nearby, but you need to use the Whirlwind shout in-game to get there (to the right of the entrance) and once you have done that then start to locate a chest.

 

After you have pick up the boots then test them in-game since it has an unique enchantment (Muffle and 1% stamina regeneration).

 

I also know there is a few unused enchantments in the game but they exist in CK.  If you want to test these unused enchantments in-game then let me know since I'm already using them in a small mod I made not long ago.