[RELz/WIPz] Unofficial Skyrim Patch

[Zamkaizer]

There was a request for clarification on an issue I opened that was closed before I could reply, so I thought it would be appropriate to expand upon it here. To elucidate what I was trying to express with the issue: there are a number of leveled lists that are labeled 'special' that form a hierarchy topped off with LItemSpecialLoot10 and LItemSpecialLoot100. LItemSpecialLoot10 is used by normal chests (e.g. TreasBanditChest) to offer a 10 percent chance of finding a scaled level-appropriate piece of equipment. LItemSpecialLoot100 is used by boss chests (e.g. TreasBanditChestBoss) to guarantee that it contains at least one level-appropriate piece of equipment.

 

The lists that form the bottom of the hierarchy (e.g. LItemArmorGauntletsLightSpecial) function similarly to the 'best' leveled lists (say, LItemArmorGauntletsLightBest), in that they lack the 'Calculate from all levels <=PC's level' field, so they will always return the highest leveled item that does not exceed the player's level. However, unlike the 'best' leveled lists, the 'special' lists use the the same sublists as normal leveled lists (say, LItemArmorGauntlets) for Dragon and Daedric equipment. The sublists used by the 'best' leveled lists for Dragon and Daedric equipment are designed so that they spawn one of those pieces of equipment five percent of the time, and the next-highest, non-'rare' pieces of equipment - Ebony for weapons, Daedric Armor, and Dragonplate armor; Glass for Dragonscale armor - ninety-five percent of the time. The sublists used by the 'special' leveled lists, however, will spawn a Dragon or Daedric piece of equipment five percent of the time, and a random assortment of other equipment, across all levels of value, ninety-five percent of the time.

 

The practical effect of this is that the value of chests, especially boss chests, will suddenly become much more volatile once the player has reached sufficient level for Dragon or Daedric items to spawn, since the slot normally that normally guarantees a valuable piece of equipment will suddenly contain items of any material, with an emphasis on Iron and Steel. I strongly believe that this was not the designers intention.

 

Does that make sense?

 

The easiest solution for this issue would be to replace all instances of the Daedric05, Dragonplate05, and Dragonscale05 sublists in the special leveled lists with their DaedricBest05, DragonplateBest05, and DragonscaleBest05 counterparts, which would restore consistency in those lists' behaviors at high levels.

[Jumps-Down-Stairs]

There wasn't any question about how the lists were set up, or what the consequences of them were. You haven't adequately explained why it might conceivably be a bug, aside from some vague notion that the linear progression of rewards is disrupted. The lists for each equipment slot are consistent with each other, and it doubtlessly took no small amount of tedious effort to construct them. They were deliberately made that way, and it's not hard to guess why, given a little history. The previous game in the Elder Scrolls series, Oblivion, was routinely criticized for leveling too closely with the player: creatures replaced with stronger ones, items being replaced with better quality items, until you regularly encountered absurdities like bandits wearing full outfits of supposedly rare armor. You should not be regularly finding Dragon or Daedric equipment, no matter what level you are. The materials are rare, and the skill required to assemble them equally so.

 

The "Best" sublists are used sparingly throughout the game, mainly on Dummy items, giving the developers more control over where they would appear, rather than as random items in chests.  Other games may have taught you to expect a continuous, linear progression in power and rewards, but that has no bearing on what the Elder Scrolls developers have or should have done. Creating a self-consistent, believable world sometimes takes precedence.

[Arthmoor]

The above reasoning is why the bug report has been closed as a non-issue btw. Jumps-Down-Stairs probably hasn't conveyed the scope of just how tedious it is to set up that many leveled lists with that specific a spread of things. This is why the initial report was confusing since there was no solid basis for it being a mistake.

 

We appreciate the report and hope you'll continue to report other issues you find, but this one isn't going to be reconsidered for a fix.

[Zamkaizer]

I've never suggested that Dragon or Daedric equipment should be more common. The solution that I offered in my post would still have them spawn only five percent of the time the appropriate list was referenced. My issue is with what gets spawned the other ninety-five percent of the time. I'm arguing that, given how Special lists otherwise resemble the Best lists, they should behave similarly with regards to rare equipment - that the ninety-five percent of the time that they do not spawn, the next highest, non-rare equipment should spawn instead.

 

And I do not think its current behavior was the designers intent. As an example, let's look at the progression of heavy armor spawned by special lists:

Levels 1-5: Always Iron

Levels 6-11: Always Steel

Levels 12-17: Always Dwarven

Levels 18-24: Always Steel Plate

Levels 25-31: Always Orcish

Levels 32-39: Always Ebony

Levels 40+: A random assortment of materials with an emphasis on Iron and Steel, but very occasionally containing Dragonplate or Daedric.

 

That last part clearly seems like an aberration to me. Again I'm not suggesting at all that Dragon or Daedric should spawn more often, I'm suggesting that during that majority of the time they don't spawn, that the next-highest level of equipment would be the most logical, from how similar lists behave. As for the greater distribution of treasure value, that's what all of the other leveled lists used by chests are for. The special lists appear to have a very specific function within the loot scheme, and that function is sabotaged once the player hits level 40.

 

EDIT: Thank you for your response Arthmoor. The only reason I discovered this behavior is because I've been editing leveled lists for a mod I was making, so I understand precisely how tedious working with those systems is. I suppose I sabotaged myself trying to succinctly explain a complicated problem.

[Arthmoor]

USKP 2.1.1 beta is available for testing. Second post has the details. We anticipate this being about a week long.

[Elgar]

Thank you !

[diego18]

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/24290/? Potema CTD Fix
You could include this. Im not sure if you want, because the Fix is only useful, when another mod change something. But it will help people so or so and when you would change the outfit of Potema nobody will realize it and it can help.
 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/21787/? Dawnguard Lave Imagespace Fix

And here a Dawnguard fix, that you can maybe include, because I dont find the right place, where I can suggest Includes for UDGP.

[maboleth]

I'm wondering about USKP's "NR" suffix, when the fix isn't retroactive... does that mean the fix won't be active for any saved game that was started before the patch, or does it mean it won't be active for already started quests or discovered items and places?

[BlackPete]

That generally depends on the type of fix. With some fixes it simply isn't possible to force it to take effect on an existing game, because the variables (or properties) are "fixed" as soon as your game is started from the main menu.

 

For example, an "NR" tag on a fix that involves papyrus or a reference that is held in a script property won't be retroactive on an existing game in almost every case (example 1 / example 2).

 

There are some rare instances with quest or actor related "NR" fixes can work on an existing game under certain conditions such as not discovering a location or not yet having started a quest. If you remember the guard respawn fixes we did quite some time back, those would work an existing game as long as you hadn't yet visited the locations where these NPCs are placed. In that case, the respawn flag settings were apparently baked into your save the moment you enter the cell where these NPCs are located.

[maboleth]

Thanks Pete. So it seems NR depends on the subject it tries to fix.

[Leonardo]

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/24290/? Potema CTD Fix

You could include this. Im not sure if you want, because the Fix is only useful, when another mod change something. But it will help people so or so and when you would change the outfit of Potema nobody will realize it and it can help.

That fix is already listed here, so it's included in USKP.

 

The Wolf Queen Awakened and Grimsever Return FIX (http://www.nexusmods...yrim/mods/21575) - Potema and Mjoll Quest Fix.esp

[Arthmoor]

Version 2.1.1 is now live. Enjoy!

[maboleth]

Is it normal for a vampire to be friendly after being attacked? The thing is, I met a vampire and his thrall. We fought, but eventually I fell over the cliff and got straight into the lake. I survived and climbed back again. When I met him, he was friendly and said something like "hope you won't be mad at me and attack". They were both friendly. I never met a vampire who didn't attack on sight before.

[August]

I just started a new mage build and ventured into Bleak Falls Barrow. At some point my Assault crime value went up by one. After reloading an earlier save I narrowed it down to blasting Arvel the Swift as he was making his getaway; the game counts this as a crime. Is this behavior intended? It seems inconsistent with being seemingly allowed to snipe other not-yet-hostile bandits and creatures in the dungeon unawares, without counting them as a crime.

 

As an aside, Beth made it so easy to rack up assaults without realizing it. Keeping a character's record clean is a challenge in itself.

[BlackPete]

Yes, that is intended behavior; at least with bandits and other NPCs. When you attack an NPC without them attacking you first it count as an Assault crime. I've not personally checked whether the game counts unprovoked attacks on creatures and animals as a crime, but even if that is the case I'm almost completely positive that it wouldn't be something the USKP could solve since crime statistics are controlled by the game's user interface.

[alt3rn1ty]

Hi guys trying to figure out if there is a reason for some of the whiterun guards ( GuardWhiteunSonsDragonsreach ) to have a race of fox

 

screenshot

 

Noticed it while looking at a new mod No Guard Torches which reverts the same to default

[VaultDuke]

isn't that just a display error? Fox race is the standard race.

[alt3rn1ty]

Do you mean a display error of TES5Edit ?, I dont know

 

Just looking at the USKP on its own brings up the same screenshot, whether it matters at all I do not know either, it just struck me as odd being different from vanilla if it serves no purpose

[Arthmoor]

It means the particular NPC has been templated to another. The CK, for whatever reason, saves that as "Fox Race" when the "Use Traits" button is checked.

[alt3rn1ty]

Ah, thats why the guards always wear helmets then, embarrassed about being furries.

[August]

Yes, that is intended behavior; at least with bandits and other NPCs. When you attack an NPC without them attacking you first it count as an Assault crime. I've not personally checked whether the game counts unprovoked attacks on creatures and animals as a crime, but even if that is the case I'm almost completely positive that it wouldn't be something the USKP could solve since crime statistics are controlled by the game's user interface.

I'm intrigued, so I just experimented a little in and out of the dungeon.

 

I could not get my crime statistic to go up by sneak attacking bandits or sleeping draugr (they didn't have to attack first) or even by blasting my follower Uthgerd the Unbroken. Arvel appears to be a special case.

Killing a rabbit on the other hand did the trick. Attacking a deer will always count as a crime, even when using a Frenzy spell while hidden from afar. Same with goats. I daresay it's the same for foxes, but I didn't check. So game hunting is out.

Curiously however, attacking a giant or mammoth is not considered a crime, unless they're aware of your presence. In this case, a fireball from a long distance was okay, but one from up close where they can see you is a crime.

Blasting a bandit who exhibits similar 'back off' behavior, such as the one outside Embershard Mine, is not a crime.

Attacking mudcrabs is never a crime.

 

I'd say this accounts for pretty much all the assaults I've racked up on older characters.

 

General Q: how does the game tell which people/creatures are 'right' or 'wrong' to attack? Is it to do with the faction system?

[Crashpilot]

I'm intrigued, so I just experimented a little in and out of the dungeon.

 

I could not get my crime statistic to go up by sneak attacking bandits or sleeping draugr (they didn't have to attack first) or even by blasting my follower Uthgerd the Unbroken. Arvel appears to be a special case.

Killing a rabbit on the other hand did the trick. Attacking a deer will always count as a crime, even when using a Frenzy spell while hidden from afar. Same with goats. I daresay it's the same for foxes, but I didn't check. So game hunting is out.

Curiously however, attacking a giant or mammoth is not considered a crime, unless they're aware of your presence. In this case, a fireball from a long distance was okay, but one from up close where they can see you is a crime.

Blasting a bandit who exhibits similar 'back off' behavior, such as the one outside Embershard Mine, is not a crime.

Attacking mudcrabs is never a crime.

 

I'd say this accounts for pretty much all the assaults I've racked up on older characters.

 

General Q: how does the game tell which people/creatures are 'right' or 'wrong' to attack? Is it to do with the faction system?

 

I seems you play a different game than I do, killing rabbits, elks or deer does never count as crime in my game.

Using a detect life spell also shows all of them in red (enemy).

[August]

I seems you play a different game than I do, killing rabbits, elks or deer does never count as crime in my game.

Using a detect life spell also shows all of them in red (enemy).

 

Can you check whether the "Assault" count in your crime statistics goes up by 1 when you attack a deer/rabbit/etc.? That happens for me, in all circumstances. I don't mean to suggest it puts an actual bounty of x gold on your head.

 

I did manage to assault a bandit just now after using the Calm spell on him and then attacking, so there's that. On the other hand, using Fear instead and then attacking as he fled was assault-free.

[Arthmoor]

Unless you live under a rock, you should be aware by now that Valve and Bethesda have opened the door to paid content for Skyrim. This has resulted in... well... a crapfest.

We've been asked several times now about our intentions with the unofficial patches. Though it's been stated already on Nexus, that'll likely end up buried somewhere before long. So for those of you looking for clarity on the subject, this is it:

The unofficial patches will remain free. No updates will ever cost money now or in the future. It simply wouldn't be right to even try. The patches are about as pure a community project as one might be able to find. How would that even be possible to put a price on?

The official project FAQ has also been updated to reflect this and is the preferred method to reference elsewhere if need be.

Please keep discussion on whether or not paid content is good or bad over here so that the USKP threads can be kept uncluttered and available for relevant posts.

[cangqilai]

Hi Arthmoor, is the "Legendary Edition" of USKP still in plan?