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  1. If a scrap mod can scrap something then it needs to be listed in that mod. If it's not...it can't. I've probably used more than one scrap and/or build anywhere mod over the years - but I can't see that particular install right now so can't check exactly which ones. I do recall doing some testing with xEdit and I did find references to the mole rat mound as furniture in one of them. But, I think my problems were already baked into the saves by then...
  2. In terms of scrapping. I don't think you need to have scrapped the item itself. It is probably enough that it is listed in a mod and that conflicts or influences the behaviour of another mod, the base game etc.n
  3. It opens an interesting avenue though. When I was getting this bug I had a really heavily modified game and a lot of those were probably script heavy mods. Lots of scripts running increases the chances of a script NOT running properly. And the molerat ambush is a script. But there is a further complicating factor... The molerat mound is a furniture.... Really wish afkmods would chime in on this thread. I think I've seen an old ticket regarding the ambush script and how there was a bug regarding the cleanup of the molerat hole (which is a furniture) I'm pretty sure that cleanup mods (spring clean etc) probably have a list which includes molerat mounds as tagged "scrapable" - and that is another possible conflict area.
  4. You are so right! I too have experienced this bug at Vim in Far Harbour! (but apparently forgot about it.) And it's the exact same issue. Where does THAT leave us? Mole rats which bug out in Interior locations consistently? - Regarding Red Rocket - I have had a thought.. Is that an ambush or are the rats already active? Because as I recall there are also mole rats in Concord civil defense. (Also an interior location.) There is also the junk-pile south of Starlight Drive In (on the road to 10 Pines Bluff) but I can't remember if the game treats this as an exterior location. - and it is also a one time only attack? Is it simply because most players don't install mods until later in game that these are less buggy experiences or because these attacks are different?
  5. Regarding the ambush itself. Interior ambushes of Hole in Wall and Shamrock Taphouse seem very location specific. - different from what I imagine to be proximity triggers for the exterior attacks. However, the cave under Red Rocket is an interior cell with an ambush and that never glitches for me. (As far as I can recall.) - so examination required to check these cells and see if these are different. HOWEVER. The ambush trigger itself doesn't really explain the tDetect workaround. The ambush will trigger just fine - but the mole rats don't become aggressive. So...it must be something else. Indeed, as noted if it's possible for a companion NPC to trigger the aggro but the glitch to not occur just so long as mole rat combat AI doesn't detect the Player Character (fDetect?) then we are looking at something else. In Hole in the Wall this would make sense if it were related to the disease that the player character can contract as there must be a script for that. In Shamrock Taphouse, not so much unless some damn fool at Bethesda just copy pasted mole rat scripts from one quest to the other.
  6. Yup. Even disabling a mod can crash a game if there are a lot of things that the mod adds or changes which are suddenly not being steered properly. I have never installed Sim Settlements but I have indeed experienced the bug so I'm not 100% it's related. (Although Sim Settlements could likely make changes that could cause this. I've just not looked.)
  7. Interesting research so far. I've never run Sim Settlements and yet I have experienced the bug. Make of that what you will. Indeed I have observed that exterior cell molerat ambushes don't appear to cause the issue, however I guess I thought at the time it must have been because of a different trigger. (Proximity rather than specific location) but this would not explain the tDetect workaround where the specific location triggers the ambush but not being visible to AI means the mobs don't aggrieved and their combat AI kicks in. ...and I am wondering if that's it. If it's actually the combat AI that gets tangled. - because all is fine just so long as they don't aggro.
  8. Ok. I'm not logging this as a bug yet because I don't know if it is one but... I'm doing Far Harbour before I have completed the FO4 main questline. I receive a quest from Acadia NPC Dejen to track and kill a courser on the island. Which I do. But when I find this courser he remains green, allows me to approach without going aggro and then he addresses me as I am a superior. I know the main quest story but....I haven't even been to the institute yet. Indeed the last thing I did in the commonwealth was find and kill the other courser, so at present I am hypothetically a courser killer and thus an enemy and a threat. Is this just lazy NPC writing where it was assumed by the developers that everybody would have completed the main questline before going to far harbour? (if so, why even unlock it until a certain main quest threshold has been reached?) or am I missing something? DO I have a glitched game and there actually IS dialogue or a response I am not getting? (another thing I've noticed. Trappers don't seem to have any dialogue if you pacify them. If you speak to them once they are pacified they become mute.) Edit. OK, I've just finished the questline for Far Harbor and just started recruiting settlers. Dialogue where it exists is shonky as hell, including computer generated voices rather than voice acting. I guess it was just really rushed and this would explain all of the above.
  9. Yup. Tested last night thoroughly in vault81secret (where the same issue exists) Got a thread specific to this testing posted in the mod support forum here. In short though. Scrap Everything ultimate will cause the issue with 100% repeatability. But... Even with Scrap Everything active if the mole rats don't aggro then the issue does not occur! (which is strange to say the least.) Using console tDetect to test. All mods active. Passing the marker for the ambush does indeed trigger the mole rat ambush, but as the mole rats can not detect anything else they simply start walking around under the normal ai. Under these conditions the problem does NOT occur at all. Toggling tDetect back on then allows the rats to aggro and after this it is not possible to save or exit without a freeze. This testing was done in vault81secret (Hole in the Wall) where I have observed the exact same behaviour as Shamrock but the coc spawn point for player is well placed for testing. Testing in ShamrockInterior yet to be done.
  10. Whats you line of thought there? I'll give it a try tomorrow and let you know the result. I had thought the issue may be related to their dead bodies (which might reasonably have been included to a scrap mod) and their seems to be a mole rat that starts dead in vault81secret anyway. But if I use tDetect to stop the remaining ones from going into combat mode their standard walking around ai kicks in and it's still possible to save and/or leave the cell even though the ambush has triggered and the mole rats are active. Can't remember at that point if I have then killed them and what the impact of that is. I'll try disable on them and get back to you. Am also going to see what impact toggling the combat ai off has, think I saw a console command for that online.
  11. OK, so I have observed a situation whereby a molerat ambush triggered during 2 quests so far has resulted in a game freeze. (well, to be accurate the game does not freeze until you either try to save or exit the cell once the trigger has occured.) This occurs in "Hole in the Wall" quest (Vault81Secret cell) and Shamrock Taphouse - when entering the room with the microbrewing protectron. The issue is also described here - https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5304-a-problem-with-molerats-not-the-disease-something-else/ I did a bunch of testing and I think I have found at least part of the problem, but I can't for the life of me figure out what mechanic is actually causing it. A series of run's through Vault81Secret with various different conditions set reveals that the mod "Scrap Everything" will cause the issue with 100% repeatability when it is enabled. If this mod is disabled then the issue does not occur. So, great, that identifies the culprit right? Well, maybe, maybe not. I have also noticed that even with this mod active, as long as the Mole rats do not actually detect the player (or companion I guess) and become hostile then the issue does not occur. - and it is this part which confuses me. I can't find anything in the Scrap Everything .esp which would impact the mole rats actual behaviour or that explains the subsequent freeze. In both Hole in the Wall (Vault81Secret) and Shamrock taphouse there appear to be actual trigger markers which will trigger the mole rat ambush. It is the point where these trigger that the problem will start from but...it's more complicated than that it seems... Testing conditions. (all testing so far has been in vault81secret) coc vault81secret from recent save inside vault81 or load up really old save and enter "Hole in the Wall" from start (inside vault81) = no difference to outcome. All run's were performed from the same save point's with console initiated save's made at 3 subsequent points (or until the game breaks) Testing save points = Before first trigger. After 2nd Trigger and Inside Curies lab. - failure would normally occur after first trigger. All mods on. = Issue does occur. All mods off. = Issue does not occur. All mods ON except Scrap Everything = Issue does NOT occur All mods OFF except Scrap Everything = Issue does occur (UFO4P enabled / disabled makes zero difference) On the nexus pages for Scrap Everything the author makes some comment related to a report of this bug that .ini edit's of bUseCombinedObjects should not be used, however testing with bUseCombinedObjects=1 or bUseCombinedObjects=0 - or indeed no entry at all seems to make no actual difference. All conditions were tested with this variation and in itself it made no difference. As long as Scrap Everything is active in the load order then the game will freeze. HOWEVER (and here is where it gets interesting.) Having established that the mod Scrap Everything is part of the problem I did several run throughs with various AI toggles in order to try to identify the actual mechanism that breaks the game. tAI - Has no effect. The ambush is still triggered by passing the trigger point and while the mole rats will not exit their tunnels the game will still be broken from that point. tDetect = inhibits the molerat AI from detecting player or companion. - With this toggled the issue does NOT occur! The mole rat ambush will still be triggered by trigger markers when you pass them, but the mole rats will not aggro and it is possible to save and/or exit the cell without freeze. Toggling tDetect back at any point after then allows the mole rats to aggro and....the problem occurs. So, the problem also seems linked to the mole rat behaviour. It seems in fact to be the point at which they aggro which breaks the game. - and that is the mechanic that I cannot understand. I looked through Scrap Everything - Ultimate Edition.esp with FO4Edit and yes, the plugin does have the mole rat ambush furniture in it. - But even removing all reference to these in the plugin has zero impact. I also can't really understand why it would be the mole rat aggro which is the point where the break occurs rather than (for example) the appearance of the mole rat tunnel exit decals, the tunnels or mole rat carcasses as these things might be the kind of thing included in a scrap mod. I'm going to drop a comment on the mod page itself, but if anybody with better knowledge of these things can offer any insight at all into why this happens and what the mechanic is then it would be very much appreciated. I really would like to understand the game mechanic a little better and who knows? One day maybe I'll fix a mod or make one myself.
  12. Out of interest... Why would a bad mesh on a CBBE outfit toast an entire cell and the scripts therein? I have actually performed a bunch of testing on this (using vault81secret cell as my test cell. I may extend this to Shamrock Taphouse but I think the results will show the same thing.) I posted my findings here - https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5349-mole-rat-game-freeze-bug-is-baffling-me/ However, what I found was that the mod "Scrap Everything" would cause the issue with 100% repeatability if it was active in my load order. All other mods could be active but as long as "Scrap Everything" was disabled then the issue would not occur. However, I also discovered that even with Scrap Everything active in the load order, as long as the mole rats to not aggro then the problem does not occur! - to test this i used console to toggle AI detection OFF (tDetect) - passing the trigger points would still trigger the mole rat ambush, they would emerge from their tunnels but would not aggro and this it seems is part of the key. As long as thy do not aggro it is possible to save and/or exit the cell without a freeze. Once they aggro...then the freeze will occur on save or exit.
  13. The game freezes when you either try to save (quicksave, named save via console command etc) or when you try to exit the cell (which indeed triggers an autosave) However, this is a symptom of the bug rather than the cause.
  14. I had that with hole in the wall and also shamrock taphouse - same thing, once the molerat ambush triggers there is no way to save or leave the cell without a crash. I just completed the Curie quest with console commands (which is annoying) but played around a bit with Shamrock. In shamrock if you TCL to clip through the wall at the robot end you can collect the password holotape and activate the protectron without triggering the molerats. Then you can save and exit etc without issue. However, if you trigger the molerats - even from outside the room (by shooting through the hole in the wall for example) then your game will freeze. I even threw a grenade from the top of the stairs for an insta-crash effect. I was thinking it may be related to a trigger marker that starts the ambush, but the more I think about it and my experience in Hole in the wall the more I think it's actually related to the molerat attack itself which does seem buggy. (Their behaviour is sketchy, a little like they are partially frozen/their AI is not running)
  15. I've observed an interesting behaviour in the Shamrock Taphouse while performing the Rufus quest to retrieve the micro-brewery protectron. It is possible to explore the entire interior with the exception of the final room without buggy behaviour. However, once you enter that room you cannot save nor leave the cell without the game completely freezing. It just entirely locks up. (Even with a console command save the screen simply locks up) The effect is very similar to something I experienced in Vault 81 during the "Hole in the wall" quest. - exit from there was not possible after a certain point through the map and if I recall correctly the game also stops creating saves at that same point. My feeling is that it is related to the molerat ambush, but of course there may be a trigger marker for that ambush which also triggers the glitch. It was possible for me to use TCL and clip through the wall as far away from the door/molerats as possible and collect the password holotape and interact with the protectron. If doing this, and therefore not triggering the ambush it was also possible to create a save and also leave the cell without issue. I think I created the glitch also by shooting through a hole in the wall which creates an explosion and triggers or kills some of the molerats without entering the room. Throwing a grenade from the door (effect= trigger/kill molerats) resulted in an instant freeze/crash.

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