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About Nukenin

  • Birthday 12/17/1968

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  1. I am resisting the temptation to do silly things like have modA.esl list modB.esl as a master, which in turn lists modA.esl as a master. I'm trying to actually play the game this weekend, darn it!
  2. For load order handling (which is pretty much my current selfish interest here), is it important to try and mirror the order in which CC ESLs load? I mean, conflict is conflict in any direction. In theory the CC content shouldn't have any conflict amongst itself, but in practice, Bethesda. That said, for a nitpicking perfectionist such as myself, sure, I guess it'd be nice to see exactly which Stendarr's Hammer prevails in a crazy world in which all CC content is Stendarr's Hammer variations. Any solution that can readily accommodate new CC ESLs before any hardcoded "master CC ESL list" can be updated for a given tool would be nice. Again, I presume a crazy world in which I keep spending 150 BethesdaBux™ on variations of Stendarr's Hammer churned out daily that keep conflicting with each other. Because I will. And thus they should.
  3. I've been traveling so apologies for getting back a bit late on this. I know at some point I fiddled with setting ESM on the ESLs I was testing with, but I don't recall it making a distinction in the load order. But I don't trust my memory enough to say that with certainty.
  4. Ensuring that I disabled the unofficial Survival Mode USSEP compatibility patch first (as this is the sort of thing it's meant to resolve), I manually placed ccqdrsse001-survivalmode.esl below USSEP in Plugins.txt. (First test all the way at the bottom, second test immediately beneath USSEP.) Both times USSEP won with its Scroll of Flame Cloak not mentioning anything about swimming in cold water, indicating that Survival Mode's ESL (and presumably the other CC ESLs as well) is indeed always loading before USSEP. After these tests, I entered the in-game Mod UI from the main menu. Sorting load order, ccqdrsse001-survivalmode.esl was nowhere to be found (and indeed was nowhere to be seen on the subsequent game-generated Plugins.txt). I reenabled the unofficial Survival Mode USSEP compatibility patch, went back in the game, procured a Scroll of Flame Cloak, and it indeed had the text regarding swimming in cold water (nice to see someone's taken up the mantle of providing such a compatibility patch!). So the aberrant behavior appears to be strictly for user-generated ESLs (or likely rather ESLs not hardcoded in the game?). Honestly, I suspect the game just outright ignores any CC files appearing in Plugins.txt, as it will have already loaded them by the time Plugins.txt starts to be parsed. (I imagine this is also true of the official ESMs?) I normally and routinely run LOOT to do any sorting after adding mods in-game from Bethesda.net (I'm one of those types who manually mixes Nexus mods with stuff from Bethesda.net, I've never touched a mod manager to my recollection). Why anyone would feel the need to load their ESL before USSEP is one of life's unwanted little mysteries. But they can. I guess some people like losing.
  5. Load order of (user-generated) ESL files most certainly does come into play. Create one ESL ("Dragonbane X.esl") that renames Dragonbane to "Dragonbane X". Create another ("Dragonbane Y.esl") that renames it to "Dragonbane Y". Ensure that both are in Plugins.txt and active. If "Dragonbane Y.esl" appears after "Dragonbane X.esl" then your Dragonbane will be "Dragonbane Y", every time. It's not arbitrary. It's load order. It's not a function of structure, it's a function of time. Skyrim doesn't just take all the ESLs in a bunch and start randomly flinging them off to separate threads for maximal chaos. Place both of those "Dragonbane ?.esl" files above USSEP in Plugins.txt and you'll find that USSEP's override for Dragonbane wins out and your Dragonbane will be "Dragonbane". (If you try to position them below any ESP that is not also flagged ESM, the game loads ESLs before normal ESPs so the ESP will always win out. Things apparently get a little weird and whacky when you give the ESL a normal ESP as a master, however; the ESL will of course load after any ESP it has as a master, it's just when that ESP itself now loads that's apparently fun). @zilav I like that approach. I'd not even considered "Localized". The file names seem to be 'cc' + 3 alphanumerics denoting (primary) development team (e.g. 'bgs' for Bethesda Game Studios) + 3 alphanumerics denoting game (e.g. 'sse' for Skyrim Special Edition) followed by '-' and the rest of the name. All lowercase. If someone wants to "trick" the tools, it's on them. (I also wouldn't put it past Bethesda to buck their convention and come up with completely arbitrary names for future CC ESLs.) Any tools that can could also always just provide the option for a user to flag a given file as CC content, thus shuffling it to wherever/however it is decided to present/handle such content. I definitely prefer a reasonable autodetection. i r laze
  6. I was able to get USSEP to override ESLs placed above it in load order. I was testing with two dead-simple ESLs that modified Dragonbane—one zeroed its enchantment cost (and enchantment, to remove the bar), while the other just changed its name. Placing both above USSEP resulted in USSEP's Dragonbane (original name, charges/enchantment) winning the conflict. I'm not doing any deep investigative work, just anecdotal goofin' 'round. At varying points one or the other of the aforementioned ESLs was also flagged with ESM, but I never really did a thorough breakdown of what was happening when as I was already borrowing time I needed to spend on the paying work. My interest is purely load order and not where things end up in data structures*. Things win or lose based on when they load, not where they end up. Is that too simplistic? (And if it's wrong, let me have it!) [EDIT: Well, of course I'm intrigued by data structures; I just have the (possibly mis-?)perception that the where is just a consequence here, and not the arbiter.] I apologize for coming at this sideways; I'm selfish, I want to be able to use SSEEdit and LOOT without freakouts or wacky error messages just because I might want to patch one of the CC ESLs with an ESP. I've avoided modding Skyrim for six years (as a mod creator, that is) but every time I stray into the periphery of these technical discussions it threatens to stir my interest. Also, I suspect that the CC ESLs loading alphabetically might just be coincidental fluke because they are hardcoded in the EXE alphabetically. (Something governs their automagic loading, and it's not just having a filename beginning with "cc" nor is it having the ESM flag set.) I guess we'll have a better insight when the next round of CC content hits.
  7. User-created ESLs flagged with ESM can load above or below user-created ESLs not flagged with ESM; Plugins.txt dictates this. ESLs can also load before USSEP. The in-game mod load order menu will default ESLs to right below USSEP and will not allow ESLs to be moved below normal ESPs. It will allow them to be moved above USSEP. USSEP wins conflicts with ESLs above it, and loses conflicts with ESLs below it. (USSEP is the only ESM-flagged ESP mod I have, but I assume this would be true for other such mods; not sure about user-created ESMs as I do not run with any currently.) Is there any reason at all user-created ESLs be flagged ESM? This could be reserved to distinguish official CC ESLs, as they will always be flagged ESM.
  8. Interesting the treatment of user-created ESLs not flagged as masters.
  9. Since they held out the possibility for future CC content to include ESMs, that will be a thing, but I see it no different than traditional DLC. I imagine load order will be fixed by order of release. Some sort of configuration specification for (official) ESM files might be beneficial in the long run, if one is anticipating a cavalcade of CC ESMs (or seeks to simplify the support for new ESMs as/if they are added). From Data File - Creation Kit (Fallout 4, and as these are edits made by Arthmoor in the past few days it may be evolving info) So I'm assuming user-created ESL files will follow plugins.txt order, AFTER the CC ESL files load (after ESMs), and BEFORE ESPs. How to order a user-created ESL file that does not appear in plugins.txt? I imagine by timestamp, but placed after any (user-created?) ESM that might appear, and before any ESP. Would official ESMs and CC ESLs ever appear in plugins.txt? Would the game just ignore 'em?
  10. They're ordered alphabetically in the Creation Kit, which sorts ESPs by timestamp with the exception of ESPs that are flagged as Masters (which appear below the ESLs and above the other ESPs, though I only have one such oddity *cough* to go by). Hence my speculation. I would assume non-CC ESLs would get the same treatment. So there may not be any need for special handling beyond that (i.e. no need to constantly track updates to the executable).
  11. Is it possible ESL files are simply being loaded in alphabetical order by filename, between ESMs and ESPs? After all, load order within the ESL block should not matter.
  12. Huzzah! Looking forward to being able to wear that armor and fight in the first person without tripping up a polysplosion or what have you. Thanks for sorting it out!
  13. This issue was reported in the bugtracker (FS#21625: Clipping Bug on Ancient Nord Armor) and was closed due to "cannot reproduce". I've been able to reproduce the issue and have requested a re-open of the bugtracker task, for reasons I'll belabor here. The report was for an observation of the issue on the XBox One platform for Skyrim SE: Vanilla, and was apparently only checked against Skyrim LE on the PC, not SE. To my knowledge, this may be a recurrence of FS#12444 - 1stpersondraugrarmormale_0.nif missing parts, and thus presumably already fixed in USLEEP. I can confirm this is reproducible for Skyrim SE 1.4 ( with USSEP 4.0.5 installed (along with Run For Your Lives and When Vampires Attack). This is USSEP installed from Bethesda.net (i.e. via the in-game mod browser) and it is before RFYL and WVA in mod order. If memory serves, this issue only occurred for males wearing the Ancient Nord Armor (or Ahzidal's Armor of Retribution, same model). I was under the impression that the issue only was perceived when wielding 2H weapons, but it may just only be more pronounced; in reproducing the issue I've seen it affect a 1H unsheath animation as well (Ghostblade). Attached are a few screenshots showing the issue when swinging Volendrung (2H) and unsheathing Ghostblade (1H) as well as blocking with Volendrung. Ahzidal's Armor of Retribution is the offender here, on an orc (otherwise wearing orcish helm, gauntlets, boots). Hopefully this can finally be addressed (again?) if it's a solvable issue (which I presume it was for non-SE Skyrim). swinging Volendrung unsheathing Ghostblade blocking with Volendrung
  14. It'd be nice if Bethesda just force-loaded the DLC in release order, the way the gods intended. (Yes, I know, it'd be nice if Bethesda did a lot of things!) I just deleted them then verified the integrity of the game cache one by one to get them redownloaded and timestamped in the proper sequence, because I didn't feel like firing up Powershell (or any number of third-party tools that can modify timestamps). If one still wants to do things the DOS way, fire up a command prompt, change to your Skyrim SE Data directory, then type (in order, including the trailing plus sign and two commas for each copy command): C:\…\Skyrim Special Edition\Data>copy /b Dawnguard.esm+,, C:\…\Skyrim Special Edition\Data>copy /b Hearthfires.esm+,, C:\…\Skyrim Special Edition\Data>copy /b Dragonborn.esm+,, (Unless you're a blindingly fast typist this should at least ensure the three files are timestamped a few seconds apart, which should serve.) Using Notepad (really?) to edit binary files is bad, because all null bytes ($00) will be replaced with space characters ($20). I can't imagine this would be a good thing.
  15. Just pretend you're playing Skyrim in a perverse ironman mode, restart with a new character, and see how long you can go before every quest marker is well off the map. Maybe experiment with builds or roleplaying concepts you wouldn't normally bother with, or explore in a completely different direction. Tinker with mods that you might be on the fence about. You can find stuff to do while waiting on Bethesda (and whatever certification process the patch has to go through with Microsoft). Again, this is coming from someone who takes a "restart early, restart often" approach to the game at times. I'm trying to commit to a character, honest!
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